550 ilvl still not enough for N Garrosh? *rant*

[Daez]

Who doesn't use OpenRaid? And I'm not making my own group because I'm a follower, not a leader.

Then don't complain about what the leaders do if you aren't willing to have that level of responsibility. However, you do not need to be a leader to form the group. You can easily default that to whoever decides to be your main tank. Your best bet is just to make friends with some very active tanks.

[Tradu]

If the raidleader wont take his time, to do the organization instead of spamming the chat(because he expects higher iLvl equals better performance and everything is perfect), then he deserves the playerbase who pulls 100k DPS as iLvl 550.

Do you agree?

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I really appreciate, thank you. But i went PvP(raiding is not for me anylonger).

The raidleader doesn't HAVE the time to do detailed interview with every single person who wants to join. It just isn't a realistic expectation. People will start leaving if the raid doesn't start soon enough, and even if he does take his time, the raid will most likely disband within the first few wipes.
As Compstance said, the raidleader is just trying to increase the chances for the raid to succeed by taking people with better gear to make up for possible lack of skill and organization, because there is no benefit to taking lower geared people when you take the exact same risk of them not knowing what the hell they're doing, and lacking the crutch of overgearing things.

[Deleted]

Well I'm full 528-553 gear, just averages to 543. I've run everything I can find a pug for up to this point each week and that's about all I can do I think.

About the shitty attitude part, yea I guess you're right. I feel pretty shitty about not being even considered because of my gear. I'm on a relatively low pop server and guilds here are either full of new raiders doing 100k dps that wipe for 2 1/2 hours on immersius (the guild I recently joined) or require you to be 560+ with cloak. I've talked to people trying to convince them that I could perform well for my ilvl and my previous experience as a heroic raider counts for more than a little gear, one recruiter literally called me irrelevant. It's frustrating. I probably need to transfer to a high pop realm to be given a chance as xrealm stuff is pretty unforgiving.

As far as the begging for scraps part. I never called people shitters or bads and try to have pleasant interactions with everyone I talk to in game. I'm just very confident in my ability to perform. I know I can beat most players despite them outgearing me, up to a certain point obviously. When these same people tell me no because of my ilvl over and over it's kind of defeating. When I whisper people back to explain I'm experienced, know my spec very well, have done it before, etc. it feels like I'm making up excuses and begging. You get taken as a warm body every once in a while with no expectations because no one else was on. Even still that same group that actually took you disbands after one wipe sometimes.

I'll get past this point eventually if I keep pugging the first few bosses in normal mode, but until then the game isn't challenging or all that fun for me. I'm already at the point of being burnt out. It's hard to find the motivation to keep on trying to convince people to give me a shot. If you have an alt group or something that would be willing to give a 543 disc priest a chance though I'd take you up on it to put my money where my mouth is. I'm a really down to earth guy and a reliable raider.

Well, look here mate. Obviously if you know you got what it takes, just make applys to some "better" guilds, lets say atleast ~10hc/14. Experienced players and un-experienced players have one big difference between them, un-experienced players tend to only care about your ilvl. Experienced players tend to look at the player, and his history. Not his current gear, because it doesnt tell much about the player. And what comes to gear, you can go from 520 to 560 in one raid, so who cares? You can be "evaluated" now easily due to crossrealm-raiding so it's not such a big deal to apply. Just a motivational info to the end; i was doing LFR only 5.2, was spotted from there and now im in a guild that has 14/14 hc.

[Deleted]

The raidleader doesn't HAVE the time to do detailed interview with every single person who wants to join. It just isn't a realistic expectation. People will start leaving if the raid doesn't start soon enough, and even if he does take his time, the raid will most likely disband within the first few wipes.
As Compstance said, the raidleader is just trying to increase the chances for the raid to succeed by taking people with better gear to make up for possible lack of skill and organization, because there is no benefit to taking lower geared people when you take the exact same risk of them not knowing what the hell they're doing, and lacking the crutch of overgearing things.

That is NOT how you should lead the raid. Every - excuse me - retard, can spam the chat. But why in gods name, would a good player pug it? You are NOT good because of iLvl, people needs to understand this(especially leaders)!

In my world, every sentence that contains "LFM, you need to be ilvl 550 to do flex/normal" comes from a really bad player, who doesnt know anything about organisation and proper PuG recruitment.

That's why, im telling OP to tell those people, that they suck and he deserves better.

[Deleted]

That's why, im telling OP to tell those people, that they suck and he deserves better.

The blind leading the blind. *chuckle*

[Deleted]

The blind leading the blind. *chuckle*

Im just having my fun, when a full group of 550 players fails in SoO, while 5 players can beat Gary.

Something is wrong.

[Deleted]

Im just having my fun, when a full group of 550 players fails in SoO, while 5 players can beat Gary.

Something is wrong.

Yes, you have no clue what you are talking about. Stay PvP, please.

[Louis CK]

For my guild, I look for solid players regardless of ilvl. I interview and run with them, and if they have a solid knowledge of the game and prove they can perform according to their current ilvl, I shoot them an invite. Gear is easy to get, and I've geared up a few returning players for our guild because they've proven to be solid.

As for pugs, I go by their ilvl, and if they fail to perform at their ilvl, they're replaced. I've booted my fair share of 560+ and even 570+ players who couldn't perform accordingly. If I invite someone at 560 ilvl, I expect 560 performance. I won't simply carry them because they happen to have gotten lucky on ordos.

[Tradu]

That is NOT how you should lead the raid. Every - excuse me - retard, can spam the chat. But why in gods name, would a good player pug it? You are NOT good because of iLvl, people needs to understand this(especially leaders)!

In my world, every sentence that contains "LFM, you need to be ilvl 550 to do flex/normal" comes from a really bad player, who doesnt know anything about organisation and proper PuG recruitment.

That's why, im telling OP to tell those people, that they suck and he deserves better.

You would be absolutely right, if you were talking about GUILD RAIDS. But in PuGs, the leader does NOT have the luxury of interviewing people to see if they're any good(and they could just lie anyway), so they use the only metric that is easily available, and can make up for lack of skill: itemlevel.
In an ideal world, raidleaders would have time to interview people and nobody would be bad at the game(which would in turn make the interviews easier), but that isn't realistic.

[Giscoicus]

That is NOT how you should lead the raid. Every - excuse me - retard, can spam the chat. But why in gods name, would a good player pug it? You are NOT good because of iLvl, people needs to understand this(especially leaders)!

In my world, every sentence that contains "LFM, you need to be ilvl 550 to do flex/normal" comes from a really bad player, who doesnt know anything about organisation and proper PuG recruitment.

That's why, im telling OP to tell those people, that they suck and he deserves better.

But that's wrong. When you see somebody with 570 ilvl they are likely better than the person in full timeless at 543.
I pug a Flex 4 weekly for heirlooms and ask 560 or AoTC. I dot feel like wiping because people for realize stubs don't work on mind controls in phase 3. It has nothing to do with being bad, and I always get a group.

[Farabee]

Honestly I wouldn't mind finding some groups that ask for 550+ ilvl for Flex4. It's really annoying trying to farm for heirlooms while carrying terribads.

[Templis]

But that's wrong. When you see somebody with 570 ilvl they are likely better than the person in full timeless at 543.
I pug a Flex 4 weekly for heirlooms and ask 560 or AoTC. I dot feel like wiping because people for realize stubs don't work on mind controls in phase 3. It has nothing to do with being bad, and I always get a group.

I don't think I've ever seen a single player who was in full timeless 543 gear. Who would subject themselves to a grind like that?

[Sierra85]

I don't think I've ever seen a single player who was in full timeless 543 gear. Who would subject themselves to a grind like that?

should be an achievement for that, every slot has timeless gear on it.

rewards the title Timeless

[Schwert]

I think it's really funny:
I've gotten into some of these "550 required" groups on my shadow priest: Whose PvE set is actually 530 ilevel without a meta or cloak.
Combination of fibbing a bit and linking my main's armory usually nets me an invite.

Downed Immers.
Get to protectors: 220k DPS because lolshadow and before twist of fate - doing 10% more damage than everybody below me...

They can't kill it.

Groups that demand ilevels tend to be absolutely retarded.

[Deleted]

Who doesn't use OpenRaid? And I'm not making my own group because I'm a follower, not a leader.

You can either shut up and obediently follow the rulers, Mr Follower, or step up and actually organize something yourself. Whining about this here is pointless.

n the end the whole thing boils down to the fact that in any group the raid leader makes the rules. If you find the rules made by other leaders unacceptable... see above.

[Deleted]

Funny is your anecdotal evidence and braging about being top dps on a fight where there is 3 targets while playing shadow priest that excels in multi target fights. Good job man, you must be master of Warcraft.

There is people with 550 ilvl that are bad. There is people with 530 ilvl that are bad.
Difference is, that assuming equal (lack of) skill guy with 550 ilvl will do more.

Not sure what me or some other people need to type in this thread so it will be finally understood.
Nobody is arguing with "you can kill it with way lower ilvl and skill", whole point is, that pugs lack skill very often so higher ilvl is just safer bet.

You know the difference between the best and average guilds? The average guild invites people with X-iLvl(and expects them to deliver X DPS). The best guild invites people, who can prove that they master thier class and the result is ALWAYS reliable and better than anything.

That is why you are going to stay average.

[Tradu]

You know the difference between the best and average guilds? The average guild invites people with X-iLvl(and expects them to deliver X DPS). The best guild invites people, who can prove that they master thier class and the result is ALWAYS reliable and better than anything.

That is why you are going to stay average.

How many times do we have to explain to you that PuGs and guilds are completely different?

[Deleted]

If you would read first post you would know that we talk here about pugs not guilds. Pay attention and stay on topic.

The thing is, nobody wants him because of the exact issue im talking about(and im on topic).

And no, there are no difference between PuG and guild invites. The only difference is, how serious the raidleader takes his responsibility.

I would NEVER ask for ilvl550 people to do flex/normal. Instead i would trust people and expect them to do thier best(and they will, if they are waiting for the turn). I know that OP would shine, more than any random ilvl560 guy, who got carried all the way.

[Giscoicus]

The thing is, nobody wants him because of the exact issue im talking about(and im on topic).

And no, there are no difference between PuG and guild invites. The only difference is, how serious the raidleader takes his responsibility.

I would NEVER ask for ilvl550 people to do flex/normal. Instead i would trust people and expect them to do thier best(and they will, if they are waiting for the turn). I know that OP would shine, more than any random ilvl560 guy, who got carried all the way.

Yes there is a difference. Pug groups are not for progression, spending 4 hours teaching pugs a fight is a huge amount of time. When you work to improve guild mates you are able to utilize them again. Pugs are a one time thing, players use pugs to get rewards and fill lockouts. It's better to teach a guild mate so try can be used again later than grab a pug for a guild raid. Getting an experienced pug is far more beneficial to the goals of a pug group than a random geared 550.

I'm sure you would love to struggle through with the OP, but since most 560 players aren't carried, and 550 is obtainable without one FLEX kill, taking a 560 will always be better for a pug group. Nobody wants OP because as much as he can say it, there is no way of seeing him being competent without risking the group. 550 geared LFR heroes tend to not shine, even if they insist they would.

[Deleted]

Yes there is a difference. Pug groups are not for progression, spending 4 hours teaching pugs a fight is a huge amount of time. When you work to improve guild mates you are able to utilize them again. Pugs are a one time thing, players use pugs to get rewards and fill lockouts. It's better to teach a guild mate so try can be used again later than grab a pug for a guild raid. Getting an experienced pug is far more beneficial to the goals of a pug group than a random geared 550.

I'm sure you would love to struggle through with the OP, but since most 560 players aren't carried, and 550 is obtainable without one FLEX kill, taking a 560 will always be better for a pug group. Nobody wants OP because as much as he can say it, there is no way of seeing him being competent without risking the group. 550 geared LFR heroes tend to not shine, even if they insist they would.

Good post.

But, if you ask me, the overall organization is far more importent, compared to ilvl of players(it doesnt matter if its a guild or PuG run). And that's up the raidleader to invite people with brain and not iLvl.