Seal Twisting in WoD

[Ralikon]

On front page, latest news it seems they want to bring back seal twisting to be viable again.

What are your guys' opinions?

[Muk]

It won't go live.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

In their current iteration. It MIGHT go live, doesn't mean it will be great either.

[Sett]

I don't like how it is currently showing up in alpha. I saw the blue post commenting about the difference between that and 'stance-dancing' but... Just because they're able to say there is a difference doesn't mean it's a good idea with what they have now.


I never liked the idea of seal twisting, to be honest.

[Vapo]

Sounds awful having to waste a global every time you want to do aoe damage.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Lower the GCD triggered by seals enough then it's okay, it'll have it's niche uses like other talents. In it's current form I don't see it being used by rets a lot though, Seraphim has greater potential (that scales with gear!) and Final Verdict is 0 work so that's going to be used by nearly everyone who don't care about a 1-5% damage difference.

[Vaeladin]

Sounds awful having to waste a global every time you want to do aoe damage.

What does AoE have anything to do with seal twisting? They already reverted the changes that make HotR only available when Seal of Rightousness is active.

[anaxie]

Alreay made a post in the main threat about my version of imp seals. The fact you randomly swap into an AoE seal not to do aoe is complete fucktard design.

Instead it goes about enhancing each of the seals and at the same time solves single target, aoe problems, and Pvp snares.

Granted my implementation is so good the other talents would need to be brought up to par.

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Lastly lets not even class emp Seals, seal twisting. It's not.

It has exactly fuck all to do with the old seal twisting for extra damage or to weave in justice stuns in pvp through precise swapping through swing times.

This is swap and judge and gain a buff that has fuck all to do with the seal. Lets seriously not kid ourselves here. No if fucking rightiousness actually did MORE weapon damage per swing. THAT is what fucking seal twisting is, I'd rather say fuck the aoe component and buff HotR / DS to compensate. Make us swap to truth to refresh censure and jump to Rightiousness for the instant damage.

[Deja Thoris]

Half the EU forum posts on paladins are about how hard it is to keep inquisition up, a one minute buff.

If you need to seal twist every few seconds to do this or that its going to feel clunky as fuck imo. Especially if you have to twist to maintain buffs.

[anaxie]

Yeah but they will say it's a choice now and to use final Verdict.

All our 100 talents have poor implementation so far imo.

That and empowered truth 10% ap alone beats Final verdict so /giggle

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I don't know why it irks me. Please everyone Seal swap. You are twisting nothing, twisting is when you swapped seals as your swing timer hit to gain the effects of both. You aren't twisting anything except the history of your ret forefathers. :'(

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Half the EU forum posts on paladins are about how hard it is to keep inquisition up, a one minute buff.

If you need to seal twist every few seconds to do this or that its going to feel clunky as fuck imo. Especially if you have to twist to maintain buffs.

Tell your EU ret friends to DIE ~ love anaxie

[Deja Thoris]

Yeah but they will say it's a choice now and to use final Verdict.

All our 100 talents have poor implementation so far imo.

That and empowered truth 10% ap alone beats Final verdict so /giggle

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I don't know why it irks me. Please everyone Seal swap. You are twisting nothing, twisting is when you swapped seals as your swing timer hit to gain the effects of both. You aren't twisting anything except the history of your ret forefathers. :'(

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Tell your EU ret friends to DIE ~ love anaxie

They aren't my friends, less shit posts from you pls. Love Deja

[Raeph]

On front page, latest news it seems they want to bring back seal twisting to be viable again.

What are your guys' opinions?

Looks like, for prot anyway, you'll be sacraficing two GCDs every 20 seconds to maintain the buffs (one to switch to a second seal, one to switch back to your primary damage seal). The bonus will have to be enough to at least break even on the other 11 GCDs (at 0.00% haste, at 50% you go from 13 total GCDs to 20 in 20 seconds) with the loss of those other two to maintain the buff.

It will also prioritize Judgement over Crusader Strike, which may throw off our HoPo generation, when you are in the process of twisting to keep your buffs up.

I personally liked seal twisting in TBC, but there are so many issues with the new version of it that even if it is a dps increase, it will have to be borderline over powered to make up for the clunkiness of the execution. In any heavy movement fight or quick dying AoE packs it will be difficult if not impossible to maintain both buffs, which adds a situational quality to it, that does not effect the other two talents.

Patchwerk style fights with no adds and no movement, where you can tunnel the boss is where it will shine.

Anything else and you are better off picking one of the other two talents.

I'm personally more interested in Seraphim.

[Nobleshield]

I have no interest in seal twisting. I hated stance dancing as a warrior, and I don't want this outdated mechanic to rear its ugly head ever again. With any luck the difference will be minuscule rather than something that all high-performing paladins will be expected to do.

[Boubouille]

Tell your EU ret friends to DIE ~ love anaxie

Don't be a dick. ~love Boubouille.

PS: Rest of the post stays on topic, you'll probably be infracted for going off-topic even if it's to comment on me jumping in.

[Ralikon]

"Seal Twisting" personally is summed up as: Having to click a button, so that you gain the benefit of a certain ability and then clicking another button to benefit from another ability, but at the same time and mid combat doesn't feel fun.

It's a gimmicky play style almost, as if it were an oversight in development and isn't actually supposed to work like that.

[Vintersol]

I have no interest in seal twisting. I hated stance dancing as a warrior, and I don't want this outdated mechanic to rear its ugly head ever again. With any luck the difference will be minuscule rather than something that all high-performing paladins will be expected to do.

This! I hope it won't go live.

[Ralikon]

Looks like, for prot anyway, you'll be sacraficing two GCDs every 20 seconds to maintain the buffs (one to switch to a second seal, one to switch back to your primary damage seal). The bonus will have to be enough to at least break even on the other 11 GCDs (at 0.00% haste, at 50% you go from 13 total GCDs to 20 in 20 seconds) with the loss of those other two to maintain the buff.

It will also prioritize Judgement over Crusader Strike, which may throw off our HoPo generation, when you are in the process of twisting to keep your buffs up.

I personally liked seal twisting in TBC, but there are so many issues with the new version of it that even if it is a dps increase, it will have to be borderline over powered to make up for the clunkiness of the execution. In any heavy movement fight or quick dying AoE packs it will be difficult if not impossible to maintain both buffs, which adds a situational quality to it, that does not effect the other two talents.

Patchwerk style fights with no adds and no movement, where you can tunnel the boss is where it will shine.

Anything else and you are better off picking one of the other two talents.

I'm personally more interested in Seraphim.

I read they're making HoR auto replace Crusader Strike when specced prot

[Xorn]

I don't like how it is currently showing up in alpha. I saw the blue post commenting about the difference between that and 'stance-dancing' but... Just because they're able to say there is a difference doesn't mean it's a good idea with what they have now.


I never liked the idea of seal twisting, to be honest.

There isn't a difference though. They said stance dancing involves switching stances to use one ability that is unavailable then switching back. For all intents and purposes, seals might as well be "aoe stance" and "st stance." With that talent you'd jump into whichever seal you weren't in, use Judgment to get the unavailable buff, then jump back to the correct "stance." How is this different?

[Common Sense]

Keeping up Inquisition was a nightmare before the buff, I can't imagine how bad juggling several buffs by "twisting" seals would be in a PvP environment.

[Nobleshield]

I read they're making HoR auto replace Crusader Strike when specced prot

Didn't they say they were reverting that? Or is this some other change?