Glyph of Mind Harvest

[Yvaelle]

I really hope they redo MBender. It's so lack luster.

He should do AoE attacks with his 8 tentacles!

That or he should sit beside us at range and psychically attack AOE Potentially via channeling a Mind Sear (if they are lazy), or something much cooler - like he could summon spectral Octopus tentacles out of the ground like a super Void Tendril attack!

[Shahad]

Please, do us all a favor and learn how to use paragraphs.

As for your flame, I don't need to be well known to speak the truth. You're the one putting a lot of "ifs", and it seems to me you're the ONLY one denying the strenght of this glyph/perk, even amongst other SP's.

Your main argument seems to be that adds won't live enough so you can make good use of it? This will be up to the devs and the encounters, but on SoO I can think of a number of encounters it could/would make a difference, if someone is still doing progress. Don't you?

And since you may play the "it's kinda late to be doing progress", try to be smart and look at the big picture as if WoD raids were somehow similar to SoO, or ToT.


@Spinalcrack

Where the hell did I said it was OP?
Mechanically speaking, it's a QoL, and a buff to multitarget situations. I hope SP get it.

You're misunderstanding. What Drye said was that even with the glyph we wouldn't be able to multidot Devouring Plague. It was a response to your comment about the glyph buffing multidoting, which it isn't. He didn't say it wasn't a buff to multitarget situations.

- - - Updated - - -

He should do AoE attacks with his 8 tentacles!

That or he should sit beside us at range and psychically attack AOE Potentially via channeling a Mind Sear (if they are lazy), or something much cooler - like he could summon spectral Octopus tentacles out of the ground like a super Void Tendril attack!

I would rather have him remain a single target option to be honest. I personally still view that tier as a mostly single target tier. But since both the other options have a strong synergy with DP, I'm thinking perhaps it would be a good thing to replace MB with a passive that spawns two of a new type of shadowy apparition that channel mind flay (a weaker version so it's not basically passive Insanity) for the duration of DP. Would look cooler if anything.

[evertonbelmontt]

You're misunderstanding. What Drye said was that even with the glyph we wouldn't be able to multidot Devouring Plague. It was a response to your comment about the glyph buffing multidoting, which it isn't. He didn't say it wasn't a buff to multitarget situations.

It is a buff to multidotting. Ultimatelly it will depend on whatever the encounter has and your guild strategy, but it is an increase to your multidotting dps on many encounters in SoO. Protectors, Nazgrim, Galakras and so on. Maybe it's hard to see it because at this point everyone already overgeared the content, but saying that you can't see it as if you were to jump from flex (540) going into normal mode is wrong.

Gear is important because in WoD this kind of change will make more difference since it's mostly a QoL change, followed by a (needed) buff and the most casual players will be in a scenario more likely to the above.

[Shahad]

It is a buff to multidotting. Ultimatelly it will depend on whatever the encounter has and your guild strategy, but it is an increase to your multidotting dps on many encounters in SoO. Protectors, Nazgrim, Galakras and so on. Maybe it's hard to see it because at this point everyone already overgeared the content, but saying that you can't see it as if you were to jump from flex (540) going into normal mode is wrong.

Gear is important because in WoD this kind of change will make more difference since it's mostly a QoL change, followed by a (needed) buff and the most casual players will be in a scenario more likely to the above.

But multidoting itself isn't being buffed. Your dots don't do more or less damage from this glyph.

[Drye]

Please, do us all a favor and learn how to use paragraphs.

As for your flame, I don't need to be well known to speak the truth. You're the one putting a lot of "ifs", and it seems to me you're the ONLY one denying the strenght of this glyph/perk, even amongst other SP's.

Your main argument seems to be that adds won't live enough so you can make good use of it? This will be up to the devs and the encounters, but on SoO I can think of a number of encounters it could/would make a difference, if someone is still doing progress. Don't you?

And since you may play the "it's kinda late to be doing progress", try to be smart and look at the big picture as if WoD raids were somehow similar to SoO, or ToT.


@Spinalcrack

Where the hell did I said it was OP?
Mechanically speaking, it's a QoL, and a buff to multitarget situations. I hope SP get it.

You know that whole expression, you are literally too stupid to insult? Yeah, that applies here. You don't even understand your own argument. You've said that it will increase our multidot dmg. How on earth is a spell that lasts 6 seconds long with a resource regenerator that has a 8 second cd going to be up on multiple targets? In simple terms for you, unless there's some unique situation where you can swd adds, you won't be able to cast devouring plague on multiple targets. So how is it an increase on multi dot.

And as for my "flame", you started it by insulting spinal. You used the same insult I did. Are you even aware of what you have said?

I do enjoy that you said I brought up progression or how important the glyph is when I clearly didn't bring it up at all. No one cares about SoO, not even the people who are still progressing currently. This is all about warlords.

I haven't denied the strength of the glyph/perk. I'm pretty happy about it, It's going to be pretty strong. I'm saying that the reason why it's going to be strong are not the reasons you've listed.

[evertonbelmontt]

@Drye

Using your same words: "This is all about Warlords": Void Entropy is already your answer. Or you're gonna say that it's not valid because we don't know if it's gonna stay or how strong it's gonna be? It's more solid and have been on the table longer than the idea of the glyph, for all I know.

I did not say you bring up progression (can you quote me on that?), but you clearly said that it doesn't matter now, and it's a mistake. Blizzard balances the game revolving arround a mid term between hardcore and casual players, I went ahead and showed you how big of an improvement it would be on fights like SoO because that's the kind of content we have NOW, and most likely are to see in the future (dynamic, movement and add fights).

Make up your mind. If it's all about WoD, you can't ignore WoD talents or other changes it's gonna happen.

[Dierdre]

It is a buff to multidotting.

Only via DI, whose proc rate will lower to unknown values at the moment, on fights where adds will spawn often enough or will live enough for you to MB on them.

Ultimatelly it will depend on whatever the encounter has

Yes.

it is an increase to your multidotting dps on many encounters in SoO.

This will not affect SoO encounters as it is a WoD perk.

Protectors, Nazgrim, Galakras and so on.

Are over. Think forward. You don't even know how tuning will end up, and it will surely be balanced around this. Even though, just as a thought experiment, the perk is not even close to e.g. affliction SS / Drain Soul, as in the same multidotting scenarios affli can haunt and proc 4 shards from every single add.

TLDR, Mind harvest is a dps increase and a QoL improvement, but nothing gamebreaking and nowhere close to what warlocks do atm.

PS. If you think Destro's AoE isn't the strongest in game atm, only par with warrior burst AoE, maybe you should start reading the lock forums yourself.

[evertonbelmontt]

@Dierdre

I agree with everything, but I'm gonna enlighten you on a few things:

SB:SS is gonna be hit pretty hard through snapshotting, at least with the info we have now that's a safe thing to say.
Destro AoE may be the strongest in the game, but it has absolutelly _nothing_ to do with MF. In fact, the old MF was miles better for destro.

PS: And DS is gonna refund only 1 charge down from all 4 soul shards.

[Dierdre]

SB:SS is gonna be hit pretty hard through snapshotting

Just as shadow will.

Destro AoE may be the strongest in the game, but it has absolutelly _nothing_ to do with MF. In fact, the old MF was miles better for destro.

And that's why it was changed, because it was absurdly OP even by warlock standards. Destro could literally do the same dps as the rest of the raid combined on H Durumu. Doesn't change the fact that destro's AoE is strongest even without MF.

PS: And DS is gonna refund only 1 charge down from all 4 soul shards.

That will make much more sense and affli will be tuned around it. Affli changes are gonna be great, it will be a good engaging competitive spec instead of just a meter cheesing spec.

[Drye]

Using your same words: "This is all about Warlords": Void Entropy is already your answer. Or you're gonna say that it's not valid because we don't know if it's gonna stay or how strong it's gonna be? It's more solid and have been on the table longer than the idea of the glyph, for all I know.

Oh hey, look... I already went over that...

So you won't be able to have multiple Devouring Plagues up unless you get insane luck, odd timing of a boss mechanic, or picking VEnt. But that's a different ability.

I did not say you bring up progression (can you quote me on that?), but you clearly said that it doesn't matter now, and it's a mistake. Blizzard balances the game revolving arround a mid term between hardcore and casual players, I went ahead and showed you how big of an improvement it would be on fights like SoO because that's the kind of content we have NOW, and most likely are to see in the future (dynamic, movement and add fights).

How about right here:

Your main argument seems to be that adds won't live enough so you can make good use of it? This will be up to the devs and the encounters, but on SoO I can think of a number of encounters it could/would make a difference, if someone is still doing progress. Don't you?

Make up your mind. If it's all about WoD, you can't ignore WoD talents or other changes it's gonna happen.

I haven't denied the strength of the glyph/perk. I'm pretty happy about it, It's going to be pretty strong. I'm saying that the reason why it's going to be strong are not the reasons you've listed.

oohhh boy. I love talking to a brick wall.

[evertonbelmontt]

@Drye

Chosen to ignore VEnt and other DoT abilities that could make use of the glyph/perk to make a point doesn't make it a valid one. You don't know the strenght of all your other abilities on WoD without the tuning pass and snapshot changes to say it won't be strong for multidot. But go ahead and explain to me how my reasons are wrong if you already know what % of your damage each ability is up to, on each encounter!

As for your quote.. rofl. I may be a wall, but you read like one. Even if your perception from that was true, I would be the one bringing up progression to the conversation.

[justflayin]

@Drye

Chosen to ignore VEnt and other DoT abilities that could make use of the glyph/perk to make a point doesn't make it a valid one. You don't know the strenght of all your other abilities on WoD without the tuning pass and snapshot changes to say it won't be strong for multidot. But go ahead and explain to me how my reasons are wrong if you already know what % of your damage each ability is up to, on each encounter!

As for your quote.. rofl. I may be a wall, but you read like one. Even if your perception from that was true, I would be the one bringing up progression to the conversation.

You just made this entire conversation null. If no one knows the strength of anything w/o a tuning pass, why are you even continuing this debate?

[Dierdre]

--SNIP--

Infracted. Do not post to call troll

[evertonbelmontt]

When you (or anyone for that matter) wants to make a point based on something we will get on upcoming patch, we have to work with the _information_ we have available, not select few ones. He chose to ignore VEnt and DI or other scenarios based on what? Because right now, with the info available, it can't be disregarded.

Some of the SP's in here share this vision, but he's just trying to look smart.

[Drye]

@Drye
Chosen to ignore VEnt and other DoT abilities that could make use of the glyph/perk to make a point doesn't make it a valid one.

I've come to the conclusion that this is just a giant trick and that no body is actually as dense as you are. It has to be a trick.

I've stated now, this is the 3rd time I've posted this:

So you won't be able to have multiple Devouring Plagues up unless you get insane luck, odd timing of a boss mechanic, or picking VEnt. But that's a different ability.

IDK how you are unable to comprehend that VEnt is the only dot that would be heavily affected by this. You keep saying DOTs, please explain to me how other than the reasons I've listed, we can have multiple DPs? I would love to know. The whole definition of Mutidot fights is, You are able to apply the same dot on multiple targets. VT/SW;P are unaffected by this, DP, other than already stated wont be able to be applied on multiple targets; its impossible. That leaves VEnt, which if you are not picking ASprits on a fight like spoils/pandas...

@Drye
You don't know the strength of all your other abilities on WoD without the tuning pass and snapshot changes to say it won't be strong for multidot. But go ahead and explain to me how my reasons are wrong if you already know what % of your damage each ability is up to, on each encounter!

I'm not arguing the strength of our abilities, I'm arguing basic mechanics....

Just...

[evertonbelmontt]

I've come to the conclusion that this is just a giant trick and that no body is actually as dense as you are. It has to be a trick.

You can break the wall at any moment. Just say in exact words, "loud and clear", that you firmly believes it isn't a buff to multidotting at all.

If you don't, that would do as well.
Mid term isn't an option. My only claim is that with the info we have available, it's a buff to multidot/multitarget situations. You're stating that as wrong, by excluding possibilities you just can't.

Your answer? Is it or is it not?

[Drye]

You still have yet to say why it's a buff to multidot. All you've done are make strawman claims without proving anything so again...

Just...

[evertonbelmontt]

@Drye

Oooh, come on! I'm just a no name warlock, you're the expert here. I believe that the "Gentlemans Rule" aplies here, you go first!

Well, I could go back and quote the words of others SP's in this very thread if they matter, but only when you give your own.


I can't believe you do not understand the distinction they are drawing any longer - you are clearly and intentionally misconstruing responses to create strawman arguments, and incorrectly attributing claims to people who said nothing of the sort. Please refrain from trolling the Priest forums in the future.

~ Yva

[Spinalcrack]

@Drye

Oooh, come on! I'm just a no name warlock, you're the expert here. I believe that the "Gentlemans Rule" aplies here, you go first!

Well, I could go back and quote the words of others SP's in this very thread if they matter, but only when you give your own.

Everyone here, including myself has said it IS a buff. Just not for the reasons you are claiming which spreads false info. You are the only one claiming it is a "flat out buff to multidotting", because either:

A. You don't understand the term multidotting
B. You don't understand the spells, and the fact that only really VEnt is heavily affected and that is a dot with a 1 min duration that ticks every 3 seconds that can only be cast with three orbs - so this glyph buffs it once per add that needs to be alive for a full minute to get full use out of this. If it doesn't stay alive very long, you are probably better dropping a DP + Insanity for those three orbs gained from the glyph - aka LOGIC

You started this off saying be careful what you wish for as someone used to nerfs, etc. So you were advocating that this is too strong a glyph. It isn't! At least not for the reasons you are trying to make work which clearly show your ignorance to shadow priesting.

You then started calling people average / close minded without even understanding the basic mechanics of the shadow toolkit. Please, just stop.

Edit: Here I'll post the spell tooltips for WoD so you can maybe try to get this.

Devouring Plague
1 Shadow Orbs 40 yd range
Instant cast
Requires Priest (Shadow)
Requires level 21
Consumes up to 3 Shadow Orbs to deal up to (337.5% of Spell power) Shadow damage and an additional 100% damage over 6 sec. Also heals the caster for up to 2.50% of their maximum health when it deals periodic damage.

Void Entropy
1 Shadow Orbs 40 yd range
1.5 sec cast
Requires Priest (Shadow)
Requires level 100
Consumes up to 3 Shadow Orbs to deal up to (36.45% of Spell power) Shadow damage every 3 sec for 1 min.

Mind Blast (needed to generate the orbs) has an 8 second cooldown, and we would only cast these with 3 orbs. So in your "flat out buff to multidot" world, we can get a single dot up on these adds every 8 seconds at the cost of not casting DP, one time only in the fight (again glyph works once per mob). Short lived adds do not count as DP will hit way harder in the short duration situations. Fights with a boss and wave of adds, same thing. Mind Blast the adds and dump a single VEnt into the Boss followed by DP + Insanity's (into a single target - not multidot).

At no point using only this glyph are we going to be able to have multiple DP's up at all (8 second MB cd vs 6 second DP duration), let alone on multiple targets at once. Multiple VEnt's are possible but you need a specific situation to make this a viable choice over spending orbs on DP, and as Drye said, most of those situations you won't even take VEnt as a talent.

Now if they buff the crap out of Void Entropy, or make other changes, sure. Information we have at this time. No, so please stop.

[Drye]

@Drye

Oooh, come on! I'm just a no name warlock, you're the expert here. I believe that the "Gentlemans Rule" aplies here, you go first!

Well, I could go back and quote the words of others SP's in this very thread if they matter, but only when you give your own.

I really hope you have some mental disability that makes you this dense.