If you enjoy LFR, unsub now.

[Deleted]

That never happened in the history of raiding unless people who did less work were unjustifiably given equal rewards. For example when 10 mans were first given the same loot as the 25 mans, even though it was significantly easier to logistically prepare than 25s. Even then no one touted for its removal

Arguably there were problems as IIRC some 10 man fights were substantially harder than their 25 man equivelents. That's a balancing issue though as opposed to an effort/reward issue.

[Deleted]

Pretty much this, though I would say it with more grace.

Blizzard tuning the rewards to that of around heroic 5 man loot means LFR is around heroic 5 man difficulty, though I'd wager it's much easier.(Stacking buff)

Heroic 5 mans don't drop purples, why should tourist mode?

I'd pay anyone to explain that to me.

(Inb4 someone mentions the epics in MoP heroics with Ashes of Alar chance to drop)

Heroic 5mans will drop epic gear, lower ilvl than lfr but still epic but you can gear up fully in epic day1 by queuespamming while lfr will have its weekly save as now.
Keep in mind there will be a full set of normal dungeons that is the go to gearing place for blues like mop hcs was at launch, then its either lfr and/or heroic dungeons afterwards as preperation for raiding.

[Deleted]

i am pretty sure WoD LFR still rewards purple gear unless they have said otherwise recently.

Yes. It still rewards epic gear. The epic gear is above HC dungeon difficulty.

[Dragoncurry]

Arguably there were problems as IIRC some 10 man fights were substantially harder than their 25 man equivelents. That's a balancing issue though as opposed to an effort/reward issue.

No shit, I never said otherwise. I was talking about the backlash to "same loot" = "25s are dead" conversations that cropped up with the point that: No one wanted 10 normals gone, they just wanted the rewards to justify what they felt was easier content. As you said, for some fights, this was not true. But for LFR, it's true in every single instance no matter how you spin it.

[Traveler Voltin]

The way I see it is that there will be cases like me who can easily step up because they're given a smoother track into organised raiding, whether they be socials in a raiding guild or friends of raiders from different servers or metaphorical "kings of LFR" who beforehand had not had the incentive to push themselves above the boundaries that they're clearly greater than.

There will still be the LFR players who keep doing LFR despite changes because of genuine reasons such as time or social constraints, but they get to view a version of the content that they're paying for and that's alright with them.

Please understand that I do see where you're coming from and while I do not agree, I can at least empathise. I cannot make any informed decisions about how well you perform ingame but it looks like Blizzard are really trying to incentivise people who play well to recieve well.

I tell you what, lets reverse the scenario. One that's very much applicable pre-SoO Imagine a player who performs really well in LFR, but are intimidated by moving on to normal because they think the gap is too high or finding a suitable raiding group is too hard or they understand there is stigma against people who do LFR, which I totally agree with you at least on that point there is. With the changes in WoD, that person sees normal raiding as more enticing and they get to play to their potential.

I get that you're upset, and I'm sorry that you are. Hopefully Blizzards changes provide a suitable venue for people to perform to their full potential. I think that's what they're genuinely going for. Not to piss off the other guys.

its the illusion of forced to step up that will piss players off.
i personally admitted that i would have tried flex if i would have stayed subbed long enough. Come WoD it feels like being forced to, so i really dont want to anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes. It still rewards epic gear. The epic gear is above HC dungeon difficulty.

a few ilvls higher like 5-10 i am guessing.

[Deleted]

its the illusion of forced to step up that will piss players off.
i personally admitted that i would have tried flex if i would have stayed subbed long enough. Come WoD it feels like being forced to, so i really dont want to anymore.

Well it's only an illusion if you want it to be. That's what an illusion is. People definately arent being forced to step up. They're being given a smoother process in stepping up if they feel like it.

Blizzard doesn't want people to start raiding to get away from nerfed LFR rewards. They want people to start raiding because that's the best of the content they have to offer.

[Traveler Voltin]

Do you agree with me that new LFR Tier looks garbage? Yes.

Do you agree with me that LFR is garbage difficulty? Not with that choice of words perhaps, but the lowest difficulty in all content available in WoW, even quests are harder.

I don't care if you call me an asshole, I just speak the truth.

yes i agree to that one.

that i dont agree with. you think quests are harder? wow.

you speak opinion and i rather not take another ban speaking my opinion of your opinion.
btw, your still on ignore i just felt like responding.

- - - Updated - - -

Well it's only an illusion if you want it to be. That's what an illusion is. People definately arent being forced to step up. They're being given a smoother process in stepping up if they feel like it.

Blizzard doesn't want people to start raiding to get away from nerfed LFR rewards. They want people to start raiding because that's the best of the content they have to offer.

people arent but its the feeling that it they are that is going to piss them off.

there are better way to do it.

[Deleted]

people arent but its the feeling that it they are that is going to piss them off.

there are better way to do it.

People are only going to feel pissed off if they've been incorrectly conditioned to feel that way. I do not like using the word "entitled" but if that's the route people are going to go then it's approaching that scenario. However, as I've said before I do not speak for these people and I suggest that you do not either.

Simply, if people are going to get pissed off at a situation in which they shouldn't be pissed off then that's their problem, not Blizzards.

[Dragoncurry]

yes i agree to that one.

that i dont agree with. you think quests are harder? wow.

you speak opinion and i rather not take another ban speaking my opinion of your opinion.
btw, your still on ignore i just felt like responding.

Why do I care if I'm on ignore? Other people can read my posts just fine, and I don't post only for your benefit. Yes, I think quests are harder. I can't go afk while fighting a mob during a quest because I might die, and not only will the quest not be completed, but I also have to run back and actually do something to get the quest done. If I go afk during LFR, even if I die, the boss will die (or eventually die after enough stacks), and on top of that I have a chance of getting a reward for doing nothing.

Also, I killed Warlord Blackhilt today for the legendary quest on my alt resto shaman and I needed to group up with 2 other people in the area, and heal and cast spells to kill him. Again, that is more effort that pressing healing stream totem for 5 minutes, every time the CD is up AND NOTHING ELSE and still outhealing 3 healers who are standing there doing EVEN less than I am.

[Traveler Voltin]

People are only going to feel pissed off if they've been incorrectly conditioned to feel that way. I do not like using the word "entitled" but if that's the route people are going to go then it's approaching that scenario. However, as I've said before I do not speak for these people and I suggest that you do not either.

Simply, if people are going to get pissed off at a situation in which they shouldn't be pissed off then that's their problem, not Blizzards.

i say people in general not number wise. its aimed for the people who would get pissed at these changes. people do things based on feelings. good they continue. bad they quit.

so people are not allowed to be upset about changes to something they enjoy?

[zknm7]

that's what should be done... i don't run LFR but there is ZERO reason to take out tier gear and trinkiets from LFR... its really sad.

Not true. It's sad when an LFR trinket is more powerful/useful than a Heroic trinket just because of what it does... a good example of this is the Evil Eye of Galakras/Vial of Living Corruption CDR trinkets.... for strength DPS classes, even the LFR Evil Eye ranks above almost, if not every other heroic trinket from SoO, depending on what class spec you are. And there's NO reason that an LFR trinket should be more powerful/desirable than a Flex trinket, much less a Heroic one. And that being said, Blizzard isn't removing trinkets from LFR, they're just giving LFR its own trinkets that most likely will be quite basic (aka +200 strength with a mastery proc) instead of off the wall trinkets like the ones in SoO, some of which are extremely powerful even scaled down... Also, with the way that world bosses work, Blizzard gives you free 2/4 tier anyway, I've not seen anything where they're planning on changing that, although I suspect that from now on World Bosses will drop gear on par with Normal (aka today's flex) than Heroic (today's normal) once WoD goes live, but that's still free hands and legs, since world bosses are generally a joke.

[Deleted]

i say people in general not number wise. its aimed for the people who would get pissed at these changes. people do things based on feelings. good they continue. bad they quit.

so people are not allowed to be upset about changes to something they enjoy?

Oh no you can get upset at anything you want to get up set at, even in this situation. Is it a valid reason to get upset? Probably not.

[zknm7]

I've read over quite a bit of this thread, and I'm still at quite a loss as to why some people think the removal of tier bonuses and powerful (read: non traditional) trinkets from LFR is an issue. Some other people have made the point that these things aren't necessary when LFR is the pinnacle of your progression raidwise, and they're correct: In LFR, you can have half the raid dead on many of the fights and still kill the boss. You aren't going to get away with that in any other difficulty, unless you're just incredibly overgeared (i.e. whole raid group in flex is heroic geared, and those people aren't going to be dying in flex anyway). The point is, LFR-only raiders do not NEED set bonuses, they WANT them. They do not NEED uber-powerful trinkets in the vein of all of the CDR trinket from SoO, they WANT them. LFR only raiders are not planning on moving up to the next difficulty, LFR is their ultimate difficulty, and it's been proven that it requires almost no raid awareness, class skill, or anything of the sort to actually defeat a boss in LFR. Blizzard themselves have said in the past that all LFR bosses are set up to basically be the same as the next, difficulty wise, whereas in other difficulties the bosses get more difficult as you get further into the raid. TLDR: LFR is not progression, LFR does not require powerful gear to clear, and LFR-only raiders do not need powerful gear, they just want it. The point is not to be rude or condescending, it's to point out the truth.

[Deleted]

Im less pretty with WoD LFR gear

I no longer enjoy LFR

I dont know what transmog is

I stop playing WoW

(best line of thought ever)

[cdnz19]

please remove LFR completely, or at least make it optional. I don't want to experience some shitty diluted raid experience with 24 mouthbreathers as a means to gear up because blizz wanted to let 'casual' players still see content. If they make dungeons on par with LFR in terms of rewards that would be ideal

[Xeerah]

please remove LFR completely, or at least make it optional. I don't want to experience some shitty diluted raid experience with 24 mouthbreathers as a means to gear up because blizz wanted to let 'casual' players still see content. If they make dungeons on par with LFR in terms of rewards that would be ideal

Lfr will reward higher Ilvl gear than heroic 5 man but i think it will probably not be the the normal 13 point difference but something from 3 to 7 (at least i hope)

[nekobaka]

It does reward epics above heroic level gear.

For less effort. Yet there will always be those who complain that the rewards are not good enough. Blizzard could had just gave the lack of launch epics QQers in Cata epic 345 gear from the heroics, but it wouldnt have been any stronger than the blue gear. The ones who tend to say "it is just a game, dont take it seriously," and "stop comparing yourself to others" are taking the game seriously and basing their enjoyment from what others do.

[regularspecial]

I've read over quite a bit of this thread, and I'm still at quite a loss as to why some people think the removal of tier bonuses and powerful (read: non traditional) trinkets from LFR is an issue. Some other people have made the point that these things aren't necessary when LFR is the pinnacle of your progression raidwise, and they're correct: In LFR, you can have half the raid dead on many of the fights and still kill the boss. You aren't going to get away with that in any other difficulty, unless you're just incredibly overgeared (i.e. whole raid group in flex is heroic geared, and those people aren't going to be dying in flex anyway). The point is, LFR-only raiders do not NEED set bonuses, they WANT them. They do not NEED uber-powerful trinkets in the vein of all of the CDR trinket from SoO, they WANT them. LFR only raiders are not planning on moving up to the next difficulty, LFR is their ultimate difficulty, and it's been proven that it requires almost no raid awareness, class skill, or anything of the sort to actually defeat a boss in LFR. Blizzard themselves have said in the past that all LFR bosses are set up to basically be the same as the next, difficulty wise, whereas in other difficulties the bosses get more difficult as you get further into the raid. TLDR: LFR is not progression, LFR does not require powerful gear to clear, and LFR-only raiders do not need powerful gear, they just want it. The point is not to be rude or condescending, it's to point out the truth.

Pretty much everything you brought up has yet to be addressed by those who want LFR to keep tier/trinkets, which isn't suprising considering it is an actual argument, and can't be countered by the "You're an elitist", or "You just want to step on casuals" people love to throw around.

Difficulties higher than LFR do not reward higher ilvl just because raiders want it.

It is needed to progress into the more difficult difficulties. It is necessary.

LFR is the only place where gear is optional, not a requirement.

[xenogear4]

Blizzard should just put share lock on LFR and Flex.

Off topic, what happens to my account?
I thought it is banned, but seems unbanned on its own.
I didn't even contest it.

[Wolfrick]

hahahaha, so you want better gear for doing nothing!!!

LFR should be removed completly (btw; I am not a RAIDER so dont come with that Hardcore raiders dont like casuals, I AM A CASUAL) its just that i understand that LFR (which has no challenge) give you things and let you see the content for free...

Games should be challenging since that Punishes people that dont do things right or dont even try to do it right.

BTW: if you want better gear, WORK for it...

BLIZZARD, BRAVO!!! KEEP THIS UP!!!