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  1. #21
    Group Finder, LFR etc. all have only one purpose. Getting good players to carry bad, so the bad players keep playing and paying.
    The grass is always greener - The times were always better

  2. #22
    Doubtful, Oqueue has major flaws, and I find it unlikely that Bluzzard will address such issues. The problem with a built in system is that it can't be super data heavy, and thus it ends up lacking a lot of important information.

    Oqueue has next to no feedback system, very little control, you can only share a small chunk of information. Openraid has none of these issues, but it is online, it doesn't need to be confined to a small in game system. Openraid let players schedule ahead or pug, have things like running spreadsheets for mount farming, run on alts because their main was viewable, and most importantly give written feedback. On top of that there needs to be a solid voice communication system, blizzard needs to fix theirs because buying a 1M slot mumble just isntfeasible.

    I would love for them to make a good system, but unless they have an armory link with other characters and a written feedback system it's not a good system.

  3. #23
    oQueue works just fine without a feedback system. And this new group finder isn't meant to replace OpenRaid. So I don't know what you're even on about.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Doubtful, Oqueue has major flaws, and I find it unlikely that Bluzzard will address such issues.
    The main issues with OQueue is that (a) it has to hijack bnet chat to operate, and (b) it is decidedly non-global, a client only sees its immediate neighbors in the mesh. Blizzard's tool will likely both communicate much more efficiently (eg, most communications will be server-to-server, without involving the client at all) and be significantly "more" global. Both these things will be significant improvements.

  5. #25
    They need to incorporate some kind of rep or 'karma' system like oQ does to control toxic players, and I think it needs to have a teleport function baked in. Anything less and I fear that oQ will be prefered by existing users and perhaps superior, if the community gets split across two competing systems its a detriment to both of them.

  6. #26
    they're copying oqueue, so yeah, it will be nice. blizzard's best ideas since launch have not been their ideas at all. did you know autolooting was originally an addon? there are HUNDREDS of addons that blizz has basically copied to make "basic wow" better.

    people never want to discuss this. wow without any addon influence would have died years ago. if they copy oqueue properly, it will be one of the best additions to the game because oqueue is that useful

    you can literally find a group for anything there and a LOT are successful

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Doubtful, Oqueue has major flaws, and I find it unlikely that Bluzzard will address such issues. The problem with a built in system is that it can't be super data heavy, and thus it ends up lacking a lot of important information.

    Oqueue has next to no feedback system, very little control, you can only share a small chunk of information. Openraid has none of these issues, but it is online, it doesn't need to be confined to a small in game system. Openraid let players schedule ahead or pug, have things like running spreadsheets for mount farming, run on alts because their main was viewable, and most importantly give written feedback. On top of that there needs to be a solid voice communication system, blizzard needs to fix theirs because buying a 1M slot mumble just isntfeasible.

    I would love for them to make a good system, but unless they have an armory link with other characters and a written feedback system it's not a good system.
    openraid is what we have now, it's a central place for people to sign up and that's it. it's shit for folks who wanna find a group in-game. if you wanna find a group right now in wow, you use oqueue. it's not really for cutting edge heroic raiding or top rated pvp, it's for literally everything else.

    and after all that, openraid fails hardcore on a regular basis at all of that stuff too so to say it's better with it, i'm not so sure

  7. #27
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    The current group finders works fine, the newest though is a bit awkward. Placed away, hidding in the UI, doesn't serve the community its best.

    But it does work, and find it useful really. Of course some might not find it working as they wished due to the community or the likes, but in the overall view, works fine just shit placed.

    And the voice chat, shouldn't even need to be made or attempted. A good spirit, but we don't need it with all the other types.
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  8. #28
    Yesterday, I got my first Garrosh flex kill through the in-game group finder with 1 wipe, and also did Ordos and Celestials on 5 characters within an hour, so I'm feeling pretty good about it right now.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    The current group finders works fine, the newest though is a bit awkward. Placed away, hidding in the UI, doesn't serve the community its best.
    I liken it to blizzard's "Guildfinder" tool. We had it in place for nearly 2 whole expansions now, and they haven't gone back to it once and added anything like basic search functionality, or toasts to let recruiters know that someone wants to join their guild. So instead, if I try to look for a guild on an alt, I see the same level 1 guilds with 1 member that I did 3~ years ago when they first added the tool, it seems like.

    I hold the same reservations with their group finder... that it will be 'basically useful', but lack some core functionality that it really needs, and Blizzard will fail to address it until they decide they no longer want the feature ingame 6 years later.

    But yeah, more effort made to address the toxic player issue would be nice. Its not just a pug thing, but it will definitely detract from the enjoyment from pugs. The problem though, is that any sort of feedback/rating system will be misused. I can easily see 24 people in a raid downrating the lowest dps who joined a raid for the first time in LFR gear. Yeah, probably a mistake, but hey, its a game right ? this looked like fun... but then they completely ignore the next dps wearing full heroic warforged gear and screaming at the bottom dps that they're a !@#$ing !@#$$% !@#$ cuz they did less dps then them.

    I mean, I've gone into MSV LFRs to gear up new alts, and they have just TORN INTO the tanks for not having 540+ ilvl with 1m+ HP. Do you seriously think any tank with that kinda gear would subject them to the random cesspool that is the LFR community if they didnt have to ? Meanwhile, there's only 2-3 dps doing more damage then the 'shamed and undergeared' tanks, but they're just munching their cheetos and keeping quietly to themselves while the rest of the raid rages how bad the tanks are.

    Obviously the introduction of a raidleader into this dynamic can fix some of the issues... but in regards to player feedback, not so much. And if toxic players outnumber worthwhile players in the listings, it will mean people are less likely to use it, especially with everything except Mythic being flexible. "Why bring in a pug if you have to carry them long enough to realize you shouldn't have invited them in the first place?"
    Last edited by Halicia; 2014-05-07 at 04:51 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Googolplex View Post
    Group Finder, LFR etc. all have only one purpose. Getting good players to carry bad, so the bad players keep playing and paying.
    Negative and untrue.

  11. #31
    Moderator Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halicia View Post
    I liken it to blizzard's "Guildfinder" tool. We had it in place for nearly 2 whole expansions now, and they haven't gone back to it once and added anything like basic search functionality, or toasts to let recruiters know that someone wants to join their guild. So instead, if I try to look for a guild on an alt, I see the same level 1 guilds with 1 member that I did 3~ years ago when they first added the tool, it seems like.

    I hold the same reservations with their group finder... that it will be 'basically useful', but lack some core functionality that it really needs, and Blizzard will fail to address it until they decide they no longer want the feature ingame 6 years later.

    But yeah, more effort made to address the toxic player issue would be nice. Its not just a pug thing, but it will definitely detract from the enjoyment from pugs. The problem though, is that any sort of feedback/rating system will be misused. I can easily see 24 people in a raid downrating the lowest dps who joined a raid for the first time in LFR gear. Yeah, probably a mistake, but hey, its a game right ? this looked like fun... but then they completely ignore the next dps wearing full heroic warforged gear and screaming at the bottom dps that they're a !@#$ing !@#$$% !@#$ cuz they did less dps then them.

    I mean, I've gone into MSV LFRs to gear up new alts, and they have just TORN INTO the tanks for not having 540+ ilvl with 1m+ HP. Do you seriously think any tank with that kinda gear would subject them to the random cesspool that is the LFR community if they didnt have to ? Meanwhile, there's only 2-3 dps doing more damage then the 'shamed and undergeared' tanks, but they're just munching their cheetos and keeping quietly to themselves while the rest of the raid rages how bad the tanks are.

    Obviously the introduction of a raidleader into this dynamic can fix some of the issues... but in regards to player feedback, not so much. And if toxic players outnumber worthwhile players in the listings, it will mean people are less likely to use it, especially with everything except Mythic being flexible. "Why bring in a pug if you have to carry them long enough to realize you shouldn't have invited them in the first place?"
    Oh lords, how I would approve of a search function for guildfinder. But it lies in the same basket as the auction house, so many things I would like added there. Specially a feature so I don't have to see single posts of auctions, but could search on amount or stackable. As well as a feature to search specificly for uncut gems, instead of you typing the name and then getting cuts and uncuts.

    But again, development is always needed. Some may think that it isn't really important and others find it really important. Just wish they would observe and take in more feedback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Googolplex View Post
    Group Finder, LFR etc. all have only one purpose. Getting good players to carry bad, so the bad players keep playing and paying.
    Mate, please post more constructive than to just burn an image of something that seems to be a little overkill. If by your reason, it is for good players to carry bads... Then don't use it at all? Even though, we can still find good and bad players in oQ or OR, hiding there too.

    Really, the tool is to make it easier in a general perspective. To find a team so you can get going.
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by kappaorkeepo View Post
    I mean they tried before:
    - current group finder: pure shite noone uses it for decent purposes.
    - voice chat: used to promote faster communication ingame between people: died

    i have no good hopes for this, just another tab in the ui that won't be touched.
    well at least, i will be a lfr player that would like to get into flex but no way anyone is going to accept me to their raids with my lfr dumbed down gear.

    Shame.
    New group finder is a replacement for oQueue.
    Current group finder is awesome right now for Ordos groups.

    Given that at the start of an expansion, everyone's gear is bad, you shouldn't have problems getting into a flex, or starting your own flex.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Acelius View Post
    The new group-finder is already in the game, although it's a bit tricky to locate. It's a fantastic tool though. My usual wait time for Ordos / Celestials is ~5 minutes. For flex the wait time is 10-20 minutes, depending on the hour.
    Nope: they tarted up the old group finder tool, but the new one is something completely different that lands with 6.0. You can get some vague idea about how popular it might be from the current thing, but it is totally *NOT* what the new group finder for WoD will be yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TCceen View Post
    It will be glorified attempt at mimicing oQ I'm guessing? Which... is full of wannabe elitists who require a raid full of 555 for normals and 550 for flex... higher than is possible when climbing the ilvl ladder. Yes it's final patch so slightly easier with a finished Legendary Cloak and some Ordos drops, but good luck in a fresh expac.

    So far it looks like the best way to play wow is unsub until the final patch of every expac, then plow through the fun parts and you'll still have plenty of down time/time to play other games before the next one is released.
    Nope. Not gonna be full of that: one feature that the devs publicly disclosed is that you can set a minimum ilvl when you create a group on it ... but the ilvl cannot be higher than your ilvl. So, you can't create a 555 raid with your 520 lowbie, just won't be possible.

    Also, the people asking for that today either want a carry, or proof that you are competent to help them farm heirlooms because you clear higher difficulties. More common is 540 for flex, which is easy enough to achieve if, eg, you have the cloak, or a few prior flex or normal runs. Again, gating to reduce the odds that they have to carry or replace someone at this late stage in the game.

    Which is just like the minimum pug gearscores were in WotLK and so forth.

  14. #34
    I use the current group finder for Ordos and Celestials groups all the time. Usually doesn't take more than literally a couple minutes at most to get into a group. Granted, I tend to use it on lockout reset day, but not necessarily at peak hours.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by kappaorkeepo View Post
    i didn't know it was in the game yet, thanks for informing us that can't read forums all day 24/7 blizzard
    or patch notes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Doubtful, Oqueue has major flaws, and I find it unlikely that Bluzzard will address such issues. The problem with a built in system is that it can't be super data heavy, and thus it ends up lacking a lot of important information.

    Oqueue has next to no feedback system, very little control, you can only share a small chunk of information. Openraid has none of these issues, but it is online, it doesn't need to be confined to a small in game system. Openraid let players schedule ahead or pug, have things like running spreadsheets for mount farming, run on alts because their main was viewable, and most importantly give written feedback. On top of that there needs to be a solid voice communication system, blizzard needs to fix theirs because buying a 1M slot mumble just isntfeasible.

    I would love for them to make a good system, but unless they have an armory link with other characters and a written feedback system it's not a good system.
    The ingame tool is only going to be a slight improvement over LFR. The improvement will be that there will be a designated leader, someone who can quickly and easily deal with toxic or afk players and someone who, hopefully can lead. Now the question is, what percentage of ´leaders´ will actually have any type of leadership abilities.

    As you said, I will still use openraid for my groups. First off, as a leader, I have time to evaluate people who are applying to my runs. Second, when I join someone else´s group, it takes like 20 seconds to be sure that they know what they are doing. A guy who has lead the same Flex raid 10 times already probably will lead a smooth run. Oqueue and the new WOW tool do not give you that ability. For all you know, the person who is ´leading´ has no clue what they are doing. Also there is no feedback you can give to warn others if the leader is terrible. In openraid, it takes no time to check the leaders history.

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