:edit: Removed flaming, aka, deleted the entire post. Will re-post argument in better taste sometime later.
:edit: Removed flaming, aka, deleted the entire post. Will re-post argument in better taste sometime later.
Last edited by CollisionTD; 2014-05-11 at 04:10 PM.
Didn't read. Played warrior since TBC, hate Colossus Smash. Oh did you parry/dodge my attack during CDs? I'll just do crap dmg then.
Yeah you don't seem to understand the implications. You aren't just suggesting making a as talent, you are suggesting making three talents that now all need to be balanced around. Not only that it would be one of the single strongest talent tiers wow has ever seen.
Many people already brought up crit but really this has already been addressed in WoD so it isn't as great an issue as you believe.
It is understandable that not everyone will like CS but that is the nature of things. There is nothing inherently wrong with CS and thus no reason to change it.
That said, doesn't mean it can't be changed, but it is a whole lot more design than you imply.
But further, just as there are people who don't like the change now, make a change later and just as many people if not more won't like it. Understand that is the nature of things and you can't please everyone.
So then you really have two choices:
1) learn to use it
2) play something else until it changes again, even if it does change it won't be soon.
I'd rather they just removed colossus smash altogether. I hate having both dps specs revolve all of their damage around a single button.
Some people like Fury, but not CS smash, and I'd fully support making it a talent; those who like it, can pick it, those who don't.. won't?
Dwarfs, gods among humanoids, giants among... gnomes...Originally Posted by The Hitch-hikers' Guide To The Galaxy: Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz
Yes, anything to bring rend back.. and I personally don't like CSmash
It's a fact that heroic raiders will naturally gravitate toward stronger specs, and this isn't new behaviour - it's been that way for as long as I've been playing. This will skew representation in favour of those specs at the higher end, similar to how it works in PvP (hence Arms has done well throughout 5.4 because of its comparative strength in PvP).
here, here and here.
It's a discussion that's been going on a long time, and one that I followed on Twitter for quite a long time... The commentary goes back to August last year, as representation throughout Mists was discussed originally.
That is what's laughable, not my lack of heroic kills.
You're a delight.
"OMG HE NO HEROIC RAID HE NO CAN SUGGEZT ANYTHING".
Armory-policing, unprovoked hostility and throwing in personal slights before getting to any kind of a point.
What a tragic, lonely creature.
I'm going to be pleasant to you, and pick out the rest of your post that has some actual value. Despite your childish gibberish, it's pretty clear you know what you're talking about so I shan't stoop to your mode of anti-social behaviour.
It's not as bizarre as you're claiming.
Avoidance geared tanks, at the moment, are getting a lot more procs out of Revenge than a gladiator would (every nine seconds). Clearly, they'll still be using it but (as for Fury) we could just as easily argue that no substitution is needed.
I've made Fury easier and less punitive for those with less experience or interest in committing themselves as you do to a video game. Good for you, though! More importantly, I've retained the exact gameplay you seem so desperate to keep. Just dry your eyes, wipe your nose and read the post properly, sweetie.
a) You've missed it.
b) Everyone else is a scrub.
I'm comfortable letting you choose which it is. Go nuts.
And Bloodbath is better than Avatar? Wow, I could never have figured out that 24 seconds of 20% damage every three minutes was inferior to 30% damage over 12 seconds every three minutes. Maybe I don't give a fuck, and like to clean up my bars by macroing three things together. But hey, how dare I do something that's more convenient. Clearly, I need flagellated for not doing what a simulator tells me I should be doing in a video game, hoho.
If players would like to see Rend return?
Would you like me to make one?
The leet warriors who make life harder for themselves can masturbate over their monitors and ejaculate on the pixels of noobs as they do more deeps than them!
Shop smart. Shop S Mart.
It's against the rules to disagree with someone who commits the majority of their free time to video games, and thinks ostracizing others who have more to do with their time is impressive.
FWIW, I agree with you. It's another issue with Colossus Smash that I didn't mention, and another awkward facet to its implementation.
Get a girlfriend.
But you must admit - his hateful, angry post was a good laugh. Any attempt to project oneself as an authority on the Internet will invariably land in the "waving arms around and screaming" camp if care isn't taken. It's as if someone just told him to go to bed.
It's scary how poorly developed some people are when it comes to basic courtesy and/or social skills.
I blame the parents.
The ones, I'm not saying who, some people, I'm not saying who, probably still live with... But I'm not saying who.
Last edited by Amulree; 2014-05-10 at 11:29 PM. Reason: Mis-typed a few things due to laughter.
If you're going to nuke it, you had better come to the table with something A LOT meatier than what you propose to add back some depth and/or complexity to the spec.
GM of Temerity - Top tier 25M progression raiding on a strict 12 hours per week.
Beyond that point you should have enough crit (if u gem/reforge correctly) to get rb procs from ALMOST every bt, making the rotation extremely fluent.
This has been said over and over again on these forums, yet people seem to not understand the fact that fury is extremely smooth at higher gear levels, and is in a perfectly fine place.
Wanting CS to become a talent/calling for the death of CS when you (not you specifically, Knough) have NO idea how to play the spec or how it works (it's supposed to be a pain at lower ilvls and grow in strength/become more fluent as u gear, that's the natural course when crit is alfa omega and has the effect it does on the rotation - Blizz' design) is in my eyes completely silly. I wouldn't mind if they made it into a talent, but I also know that if they did, as Archimtiros said, they would have made a completely broken op talent tier and it would be a huuuge pain in the ass to balance properly. You'd basically make 3 different rotations for 2 specs (excluding prot), basically 6 rotations, and then have all 3 different rotations for both specs be within a few percent dmg of each other for there to be a point to the tier at all. Which is time better spent improving the early xpack issues or make arms interesting.
So you want to give people the illusion of choice by removing the core of both Arms and Furys mechanics, and then add it back as a talent? All this would do is that, A: All the people who chose to not run with CS is "playing the class in the wrong way", and are unable to go any higher 'cause they really don't enjoy the way CS works, or B: They will balance things in such a way that the opposite is true, all the people who currently love the way CS works are forced into the optimal way if they want to stay competitive.
Blizzard has two things in WoD that will address Colossus Smash. First off we have the CS glyph, which increases its duration to 20seconds. This means that you no longer are locked in into the "Conserve>Burst>Conserve" cycle that Fury currently has. It has some downsides, such as lowering your damage if your target dies early, but overall it's a nice concept that I think a lot of new or more casual Fury warriors may opt into because its the easier option.
The second thing they have in store is Ignite Weapon. If you have IW you no longer have to worry about going in to a CS with a high amount of rage, as your Heroic Strike will hit just as hard inside a CS as it will outside. All you need to do with your rage is to make sure that you have enough rage to use Heroic strike every 9 seconds, and no to burn too much on WS.
Secondly, There is zero use of speaking of Arms as of yet, as we still have no clue what they want to do with it. My personal opinion is that the "Arms Concept" is in a good place at the moment, but the numbers are off. They would need to re-tune Slam and OP, so that Slam is better to use inside of CS, and OP outside. This could easily be done by just boosting Slams bonus damage inside CS from 10% to something higher. No matter what they do they are (hopefully) very unlikely to change how CS works for Arms, due to the way it's bound to our mastery, and how it works in PvP.
PS: Before you talk smack about Collision, you may want to know who he is...
Not everybody will make it to 545, or even close to that necessarily. In fact, I'd go as far as saying the vast majority of players in the game won't get anywhere near it. I think your point about a spec playing differently as you gear up is compelling, actually, just as I found it compelling when healers were supposed to "grow" from using Heal to using Greater Heal - we're effectively talking about the same thing.
But I think that it's a fundamental design flaw when levelling warriors, or those just starting out, can't press buttons because they're not getting Raging Blow to proc. I think it makes the rotation feel slow, pedestrian and unenjoyable.
But good thing you admit that you want what's convenient for you, and not what makes good gameplay or class/spec design, and that you have absolutely zero interest in the game itself nor any clue of how the class works.
And I wouldn't say that you, from that post of yours, behave like the "socially intelligent person with loads of interesting spare time activities and friends" like you try to be. The game is for everyone, that goes for scrubs and elitist assholes alike. And you saying the shit you did above shows that you're just another douche bag worthy of an ignore.
Not even going to bother quoting. You realize the more quote block breakups you write the less people read. Sounds shitty but I don't think you know half of what you are talking about to begin with I am certinately not inclined to read 3 pages of it.
Your idea of stupid easy rotation is not in line with what the designers want. They want you to make decisions. They want your choices to matter, positive or negative.
And Matt Rossi, while a talented writer is the worst, period, warrior, period, to give advice ever. Period.
His blogs are laughable and he hasn't the slightest clue how to play Fury. He tells people to only get 2-3 GCD inside CS, is it any wonder people do bad damage and blame the CS rotation. That is the first of many laughable things he writes and I am extremely happy wowinsider cancelled their class articles because he was giving terrible advice.
I don't care how many fans he has that comment on his posts, because they are heavily misinformed and should the misinformed be adding their opinion?
Be objective. "You don't like it" doesn't mean it has a serious problem. It has a few minor problems. Parries are being largely fixed. Crit reliance is being fixed. What is left? Feeling like you do no damage outside of CS is mitigated by talents and glyphs. It literally is just a button that makes you do more damage. Every class has one.
While coolisions post was aggressive, it was apt. You may be qualified to say you don't like CS but certinately are not qualified to judge what is/not competitive design decisions. It is not nearly as easy as "remove this tier, fill in some talents".
You tell us to go get a life, get a girlfriend, whatever. We spend a hell of a lot of our free time teaching people like you how to play and helping the new or uninformed and realizing the new information, so however insulting you think one of our posts is when we claim you are misinformed, you are much more insulting when you belittle us and our work.
That doesn't mean you aren't entitled to your opinion of course, but if you really think your be better off with Rossi...
But if you think I'm going to be spoken to like he chose to speak to me, and just take it, it's best he knows who I am. Had someone spoken to me like that in real life, I'd have taken their head from their shoulders - it's just not how mature adults converse.
It was a hostile, personal, and utterly unprovoked, response; suffice it to say, it was also entirely needless.
But first, I do want to comment on what you've written. Yours is an opinion I value, as you'll notice on other posts of yours where I've commented, and I'd hate you to think otherwise. I accept your stance on why the designers want decisions, but they have to accept that players are migrating away from the class and beginners need a slightly easier road of it rather than simply saying "L2P, scrub" which is how a lot of people behave. Take a look at Collision's response to me. And I'm also not suggesting that Matt Rossi is a good player, I'm merely suggesting that he was a part of the discussion with Cynwise when a lot of his work was being done and his commentary on it is accurate. Because I didn't write any of that myself at the time, I'm relying on those who were.
I've tried to be objective. I've listed several fundamental issues with Colossus Smash rather than merely why I dislike it, thoughts that are echoed by a lot of warriors I've spoken to here, on the official forums, around the blogosphere and in game. Many people love warriors for things such as Titan's Grip (I do) and have been playing their toon for a long time, so simply "moving on to something else" just isn't as simple as some seem. There are players who have deep connections to their characters and who aren't as inclined as heroic raiders to simply jump ship when a spec doesn't work for them.
I appreciate that you, Collision, and a great many others spend a lot of time helping players to improve. At no stage have I suggested otherwise, or that your efforts are somehow universally unappreciated. But Collision's post to me was not apt. It was completely uncalled for, and there was a thousand ways he or she could have made their point without going down the path of elitist ostracism. If you feel I've belitted your attitude or work, then I unequivocally apologise. It wasn't then, nor will ever be, my intent.
The fact is, I bite back. I see no reason why I shouldn't.
If you feel you've been a part of that, I'm sorry.