Harder work!=Higher pay?

[Eduro]

So, let's have this straight;this is all my thoughts and my way of looking at things, judge as you wish but to me it makes sense.

Basically had a discussion with a person, let's call it Kim (Because gender-neutral). Well Kim says that everyone should have the same rights to acknowledge their feats and strengths in terms of work and should be able to show what they can do. To which I respond "Sure everyone should have the same rights to a job (If they have the same year of experience and knowledge) but if one person works harder and better he should be payed more(Because Logic right?)" to which I get a response saying some along the lines of "What if I as a person don't have the same conditions(Handicapped etc.) as you do, should I therefore be payed less?"
My natural response "Yes, I think that a hardworking fella should be rewarded.(Read; raise)"
I later get a text saying "You don't have to speak with me again, your way of looking at people are disgusting."

So how do you feel? Everone should be given the same rights to a work, but if one works harder it's just natural that he/she gets payed more?
Weirdest discussion for me I've had in a long time, happy to hear your thoughts as I'm struggling to see the issue...

[icausewipes]

Ideal world = Yes


Real world = 50 shades of gray

[Deleted]

Great idea in theory but almost impossible to regulate, how do you decide who is the hardest worker?

[Kathandira]

So, let's have this straight;this is all my thoughts and my way of looking at things, judge as you wish but to me it makes sense.

Basically had a discussion with a person, let's call it Kim (Because gender-neutral). Well Kim says that everyone should have the same rights to acknowledge their feats and strengths in terms of work and should be able to show what they can do. To which I respond "Sure everyone should have the same rights to a job (If they have the same year of experience and knowledge) but if one person works harder and better he should be payed more(Because Logic right?)" to which I get a response saying some along the lines of "What if I as a person don't have the same conditions(Handicapped etc.) as you do, should I therefore be payed less?"
My natural response "Yes, I think that a hardworking fella should be rewarded.(Read; raise)"
I later get a text saying "You don't have to speak with me again, your way of looking at people are disgusting."

So how do you feel? Everone should be given the same rights to a work, but if one works harder it's just natural that he/she gets payed more?
Weirdest discussion for me I've had in a long time, happy to hear your thoughts as I'm struggling to see the issue...

It's a tough subject, and I see both sides of the story. But how is one to judge how hard someone is working? Are you talking effort? or productivity?

A strapping young lad might be able to be more productive with minimal effort than a handicapped person who puts forth twice the effort, but half the productivity.

How do you weigh this?

[Eduro]

I'm literally talking about productivity, I know it might not be the most humane way of looking at it. But in general this is the way the "real world" works like. You won't be having bosses feeling sorry for you. You won't get the same pay from a company if you're not as productive as another of your worker. (Inhumane but logical)

[Xeones]

I'm confused, hardwork only results in more when you work for yourself. In the average work place working hard just results in you getting more work load, not more pay. The people who make the most money, in fact, do the least work.

[Aredyl]

To me, pay should depend just as much on job responsibility as hard work.

In this state, CNA/RNAs get paid minimum wage, yet they take care of our elderly, disabled, injured, etc. It's not a high-skilled job, but when someone working an unskilled job (fast food, big box retail entry, etc) at the same rate, it just doesn't make sense in my mind.

[icausewipes]

Manual labor?
Desk job?
Adult industry?
Sales job?


Need moar info.

[Dezerte]

I think you two misunderstood each other, at least that's what I think based on your account of your discussion.

Everyone should have the right to live a decent life.

Offering monetary incentives still needs to happen though, because not everyone is content with bettering society or themselves. Some require monetary or/and increase in power to properly incentivise in addition to the former - the end goal is to encourage innovation & advancement of humanity so it's deemed acceptable to reward those who might not have our best interest in mind regardless. It's only when this strive starts negatively affecting people/society that it becomes frowned upon.

As a sidenote/nitpick, working hard doesn't equal good pay. Working smart does. A less educated/handicapped man may give his 110% but still receive less pay because his result is poorer than a educated/healthy man.

[Eduro]

I'm confused, hardwork only results in more when you work for yourself. In the average work place working hard just results in you getting more work load, not more pay. The people who make the most money, in fact, do the least work.

These are mainly my thoughts, but it's only logical that a hardworking person would be more eligible for a promotion than one who doesn't work hard.

[Tulune]

To me, pay should depend just as much on job responsibility as hard work.

In this state, CNA/RNAs get paid minimum wage, yet they take care of our elderly, disabled, injured, etc. It's not a high-skilled job, but when someone working an unskilled job (fast food, big box retail entry, etc) at the same rate, it just doesn't make sense in my mind.

Not to mention that you have to have training before you can even get a CNA/RNA position. I have a few friends who do that, and it is a lot of physical and mental work. They derserve more pay.

[Niroshi]

I'm literally talking about productivity, I know it might not be the most humane way of looking at it. But in general this is the way the "real world" works like. You won't be having bosses feeling sorry for you. You won't get the same pay from a company if you're not as productive as another of your worker. (Inhumane but logical)

Logic isn't the only thing that dictates the world, this is why we have laws against discriminating against disabled people. There is a point where we have to say that what is humane is more important than anything else.

Now that doesn't mean you can't have incentives for people to work harder so that they get a better wage, but you have to begin from a place of equality in pay.

[Tirivaria]

It raises a number of questions as far as implementation. By what metric do you measure output? How objective is the metric or is there subjectivity involved.

I'm reminded of a news account I heard a while back on the different ways farm laborers could be paid at picking time. They could be paid a piece rate which incentivizes the worker to work as fast as possible which is useful when you need to get the harvest in fast. Or they could be paid a simple hourly wage so they workers don't rush and work more carefully.

There are all kinds of bonus schemes in professional work environments too. It's a relatively big topic in Human Resources.

[Eduro]

These are generally speaking in all jobs, I think that if you work harder you should get better paid than one who doesn't give two shits about his/her job. "Kim" thinks that we should all have the same pay, no matter what we do. "Kim" is speaking about prerequisites being a leading factor and that I am a dipshit for thinking so inhumane....

[Elegiac]

These are generally speaking in all jobs, I think that if you work harder you should get better paid than one who doesn't give two shits about his/her job. "Kim" thinks that we should all have the same pay, no matter what we do. "Kim" is speaking about prerequisites being a leading factor and that I am a dipshit for thinking so inhumane....

Kim is correct on the latter point; there's no way to quantify 'hard work' that doesn't screw people over.

[Eduro]

Logic isn't the only thing that dictates the world, this is why we have laws against discriminating against disabled people. There is a point where we have to say that what is humane is more important than anything else.

Now that doesn't mean you can't have incentives for people to work harder so that they get a better wage, but you have to begin from a place of equality in pay.

This is exactly what I mean, everyone should be given the same chance, then make what they want with it. This is not logical to her as she thinks any differences in pay is stupid, even if someone hates their job and is less productive...

[Xeones]

These are generally speaking in all jobs, I think that if you work harder you should get better paid than one who doesn't give two shits about his/her job. "Kim" thinks that we should all have the same pay, no matter what we do. "Kim" is speaking about prerequisites being a leading factor and that I am a dipshit for thinking so inhumane....

No that is communism. And it results in a stagnant economy... among other terrible things.

Income disparity is good for driving innovation and encouraging people to work harder.

I'm guessing "kim" can't recognize that in the face of the massive income disparity we face currently which has gone too far and is hurting the economy and crushing economic mobility.

[Deleted]

define working harder.

if you work more hours, if you sell more products ofc you should be payed more.

forget the crazy chick, she's done you a favor by telling you to not speak with her again believe me.

[Abbzow]

So, let's have this straight;this is all my thoughts and my way of looking at things, judge as you wish but to me it makes sense.

Basically had a discussion with a person, let's call it Kim (Because gender-neutral). Well Kim says that everyone should have the same rights to acknowledge their feats and strengths in terms of work and should be able to show what they can do. To which I respond "Sure everyone should have the same rights to a job (If they have the same year of experience and knowledge) but if one person works harder and better he should be payed more(Because Logic right?)" to which I get a response saying some along the lines of "What if I as a person don't have the same conditions(Handicapped etc.) as you do, should I therefore be payed less?"
My natural response "Yes, I think that a hardworking fella should be rewarded.(Read; raise)"
I later get a text saying "You don't have to speak with me again, your way of looking at people are disgusting."

So how do you feel? Everone should be given the same rights to a work, but if one works harder it's just natural that he/she gets payed more?
Weirdest discussion for me I've had in a long time, happy to hear your thoughts as I'm struggling to see the issue...

Totally a girl.

OT: It's really hard to define what "harder work" and because you're talking about everything, it's not possible to discuss it since all are different.

[Elegiac]

Productivity incentives exist including but also going beyond pay. Simply keep it unstructured so the you can keep the socialists off your ass Positive reinforcement is the core of HRM.

No, the core of HRM is listening to people bitch about 'X won't let me do this' or 'Y exposed their genitals to me in the bathroom'.