A Message to Last 10,000 Years

[Reeve]

I listened to a great podcast this morning (99% Invisible) about messages. There's a nuclear waste site in New Mexico called WIPP. When it was constructed, the government approached several specialists to ask them to design a message/monument/label/warning about the dangers of the site that could effectively communicate the danger of the site for a minimum of 10,000 years.

There are a lot of difficulties in such a proposal. Keep in mind that 10,000 years is twice the total length of recorded human history. Hell, it's longer than some people think the Earth has existed (lol). Language, symbols, etc. may not behave the same that far in the future.

The most hilarious proposal given was Ray Cats. The idea was to genetically engineer cats to change color in the presence of radiation, then release them into the wild so the phenomenon of cats changing color = danger would become known to people around the world. They'd compound that understanding by writing songs and stories/parables about the dangers of color changing raycats.

I'm curious what people on this site would suggest for such a monument.

[Xanjori]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BJ-fFnLrcP.../Skylthiss.jpg

Picture quite large, so I'll embed. But it clearly shows if you take a bin into the lift you'll end up with a squished head. Surely you can just design something similar? Perhaps someone going near it and melting.

[Reeve]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BJ-fFnLrcP.../Skylthiss.jpg

Picture quite large, so I'll embed. But it clearly shows if you take a bin into the lift you'll end up with a squished head. Surely you can just design something similar? Perhaps someone going near it and melting.

Seems clear to you and me, but how does a person 10,000 years from now know that thing is a bin, or what the lift is, or that those lines represent a lift? Hell, how do they even know it's read left to right?

[Deleted]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BJ-fFnLrcP.../Skylthiss.jpg

Picture quite large, so I'll embed. But it clearly shows if you take a bin into the lift you'll end up with a squished head. Surely you can just design something similar? Perhaps someone going near it and melting.

But what if we look like this in 10000 years?

[Tuor]

I listened to a great podcast this morning (99% Invisible) about messages. There's a nuclear waste site in New Mexico called WIPP. When it was constructed, the government approached several specialists to ask them to design a message/monument/label/warning about the dangers of the site that could effectively communicate the danger of the site for a minimum of 10,000 years.

I believe i've seen that place in some kind of documentary show before.

There are a lot of difficulties in such a proposal. Keep in mind that 10,000 years is twice the total length of recorded human history. Hell, it's longer than some people think the Earth has existed (lol). Language, symbols, etc. may not behave the same that far in the future.

Hihi... Sorry i had to laught to.

Ok, now that i had laughted, i think that archeologists will still exist in the future, we have lefted plenty of records of our current languages, even if, for some reason a mankind wipe happeans, future mankind will most likely be able to determine with accuracy wath is written there. The only reason we haven't been able to determine some of our previous languages before, such as the Mayan language, is that those civilizations, unlike ours, didn't left any kind of roseta stone, a way to give a base that allows a translation.

If you remember the Egiptian tumbs, you will notice that all of them have been sealed, the best way to protect that place is sealing the structure so that non archeologists could not enter... And once a archeologist team reach the place, they would be able to properly mark it as being radioactive.

The most hilarious proposal given was Ray Cats. The idea was to genetically engineer cats to change color in the presence of radiation, then release them into the wild so the phenomenon of cats changing color = danger would become known to people around the world. They'd compound that understanding be writing songs and stories/parables about the dangers of color changing raycats.

I'm curious what people on this site would suggest for such a monument.

Whille original, the cat idea perhaps its not the best, evolution tends to select habilities, being a useless hability, i think those cats would drop that hability very very fast... Remember that domestic dogs have evolved from wolfs domesticated 10 000 years ago. All this to say just that in another 10 000 years a lot of things could change.

[Dragoncurry]

We should just use poneglyphs.

[Yunru]

Why not make in puzzle? Just to piss researchers off.

[Deleted]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BJ-fFnLrcP.../Skylthiss.jpg

Picture quite large, so I'll embed. But it clearly shows if you take a bin into the lift you'll end up with a squished head. Surely you can just design something similar? Perhaps someone going near it and melting.

How can you make sure the signs will still be there and readable in 10000 years?

[Deleted]

Why not make in puzzle? Just to piss researchers off.

Just copy the puzzle method from Pokemon RSE for the Regis... that was such a pain.

[poser765]

The best way to convey the site is dangerous? Make it even more dangerous. Instantly dangerous. If people die within days of approaching a specific area it won't be long before it becomes part of the ingrained social conscienceless to avoid that place. It will become part of traditions and mythos. Let the people 10000 years from now come up with their own message.

[Reeve]

I believe i've seen that place in some kind of documentary show before.


Hihi... Sorry i had to laught to.

Ok, now that i had laughted, i think that archeologists will still exist in the future, we have lefted plenty of records of our current languages, even if, for some reason a mankind wipe happeans, future mankind will most likely be able to determine with accuracy wath is written there. The only reason we haven't been able to determine some of our previous languages before, such as the Mayan language, is that those civilizations, unlike ours, didn't left any kind of roseta stone, a way to give a base that allows a translation.

If you remember the Egiptian tumbs, you will notice that all of them have been sealed, the best way to protect that place is sealing the structure so that non archeologists could not enter... And once a archeologist team reach the place, they would be able to properly mark it as being radioactive.



Whille original, the cat idea perhaps its not the best, evolution tends to select habilities, being a useless hability, i think those cats would drop that hability very very fast... Remember that domestic dogs have evolved from wolfs domesticated 10 000 years ago. All this to say just that in another 10 000 years a lot of things could change.

Rosetta Stone stuff is great if you can assume it's archaeologists who stumble on the site 8,000 years from now and not just some kid and his space llama. Sealing the site is all well and good, but the Earth itself can change significantly in 10,000 years. Earthquakes, soil erosion, etc. What if the climate in the area changes making it desirable farmland and Farmer Joe wants to blow up that slab of concrete with dynamite to get at that nest of rodents that's been eating his crops? It would be good if there were some sort of universally understood way of communicating the danger for the non-archaeologists.

As for the cats, there are lots of reasons it wouldn't work very well, not the least of which is what happens if the cats go extinct. It was just a funny idea is all.

- - - Updated - - -

The best way to convey the site is dangerous? Make it even more dangerous. Instantly dangerous. If people die within days of approaching a specific area it won't be long before it becomes part of the ingrained social conscienceless to avoid that place. It will become part of traditions and mythos. Let the people 10000 years from now come up with their own message.

"If there's that much danger, it must be protecting something awesome!"

Besides, the idea was to keep people from accidentally killing themselves, not intentionally killing people.

[Tuor]

Rosetta Stone stuff is great if you can assume it's archaeologists who stumble on the site 8,000 years from now and not just some kid and his space llama. Sealing the site is all well and good, but the Earth itself can change significantly in 10,000 years. Earthquakes, soil erosion, etc. What if the climate in the area changes making it desirable farmland and Farmer Joe wants to blow up that slab of concrete with dynamite to get at that nest of rodents that's been eating his crops? It would be good if there were some sort of universally understood way of communicating the danger for the non-archaeologists.

In another 10 000 years a lot of things will change, that is a geological fact. That is why the place should be choosen carefully so that some geological features are absent, or minimal. Earthquake risk should be a exclusion point, i don't know if the risk of earthquakes is high in New Mexico, but Califórnia its very near...

As for poor Jimmy and his space llama, or farmer Joe Doe, the only way to prevent a disaster is to pass the knowledge of that area being dangerous. Its so hard to predict what is going to happen tomorow (lol, nearly impossible) and predicting what is going to happen to poor Jimmy and his space llama 10 000 years from now its a statistical impossibility .

[May90]

A photo of nuclear explosion followed by a photo of people dying off radiation should be recognizable even 10,000 years later, regardless of how people look by that time (we have an idea of how people looked even a million years ago, so you bet people in the future will have the same idea about us).

I don't think it is relevant though. In 10,000 years we either have exterminated ourselves or have got to the point when we cannot be harmed by the mentioned nuclear waste.

[Reeve]

A photo of nuclear explosion followed by a photo of people dying off radiation should be recognizable even 10,000 years later, regardless of how people look by that time (we have an idea of how people looked even a million years ago, so you bet people in the future will have the same idea about us).

I don't think it is relevant though. In 10,000 years we either have exterminated ourselves or have got to the point when we cannot be harmed by the mentioned nuclear waste.

The photo could very easily be misinterpreted as a historic marker of a tragic event of the past rather than a warning of current danger.

[Tuor]

The best way to convey the site is dangerous? Make it even more dangerous. Instantly dangerous. If people die within days of approaching a specific area it won't be long before it becomes part of the ingrained social conscienceless to avoid that place. It will become part of traditions and mythos. Let the people 10000 years from now come up with their own message.

The problem of making some places look dangerous is that kids normally ignore their parents warnings. we all had situations were our parents warn us to not go to a specific place, a river, a dam, an empty house... And has kids we always ignore those warnings. I remember, when i was young, every time i was at my grandparents house during summer vacancies, my grandmother always tolded us to avoid a specific river, because once in a whille someone died there... And accidents still happen today , that didn't prevented some of us to go there and have some fun .

EDIT:

Its part of our nature to explore, that is why i think that best way to prevent accidents is to seal that place the best we can.

[May90]

The photo could very easily be misinterpreted as a historic marker of a tragic event of the past rather than a warning of current danger.

Good notion, I haven't thought of it. Maybe then add a map nearby with red circle around the dangerous area? Although who knows how maps will look by that time..

[Deleted]

I would be all over a cat that changes colour! Gimme!

[Yunru]

What abauth this guy?

[haxartus]

Build it in a way that would require extremely advanced technology to get inside, and hope that a culture advanced enough to open it would have the ability to measure radiation.

[Ghostpanther]

Carvings in granite will last tens of thousands of years unless there is a natural phenomena which buries it or somehow destroys it. Such as a direct hit from a large meteoroid. So you place a large monument of granite, which has a section of it engraved which shows the symbol of nuclear danger , followed by a human hand up in a stop signal and then a = sign and lastly after that a human skeleton. If humans are not smart enough then to figure that out, they deserve to fry. :P