Please blanket nerf and do not implement item upgrades.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I am against item upgrade AND nerf.

Why should people have "ahead of the curve" for free basically with nerfs?

You got 4 difficulty levels.

Earn it.

Upgrades aren't technically nerfs. Don't even start with this *Earn it* crap. It's a tired argument.

[Sul]

From comparing sims of West characters and Asian characters, its a 12% increase.

the sims show a 1-2% ( average 40k) increase in dps in BIS gear . The actually Devs say its 8% overall . I believe the devs myself

[Anzen]

the sims show a 1-2% ( average 40k) increase in dps in BIS gear . The actually Devs say its 8% overall . I believe the devs myself

You do 2-4 million DPS? I'm not sure how you got 1-2% dps as 40k.

[Sul]

This thread is full of nonsense. The tier was over months ago for most decent players, if you want to finish it now with buffed gear by all means go for it just don't expect any of the fights to resemble how they were designed and defeated. Really cant believe anyone that takes raiding even semi seriously still has not expanded to take in twenty five mans at this time anyways and in this way it matters not one bit about some buffs because its all already trivial for 12/14 encounters.

most guilds on my server cant fill a 10 man roster yet alone a 25 man one. mine is lucky to raid once every 3 weeks . We take raiding seriously - we take real life even more so

[Bizerk]

Higher ilvl will stay in the expansion even after the item squish, or do people actually think current content still matters for anything?

[threads]

I disagree with the OP's position. He may feel he *HAS* to upgrade 4 sets of gear fully 4/4 but that's not the case. There's a good reason for upgrades rather than blanket nerfs, other than making your toon's power consistent inside or outside of SoO. It's called player CHOICE. All through MoP a lot of players, including me, have griped that the class changes like the new talent system has reduced player choices. For some specs, the new talents were even more "cookie cutter" than the old 61+ point talent trees. Picking and choosing your desired pieces to upgrade is part of the game too.

But here Blizzard is giving you a choice: since it's not possible to upgrade everything you got to 4/4 instantly you get to make the choices of how you want to improve your gear. The OP has 4 specs he plays but I doubt he plays all 4 evenly. So for example, if he's a Resto druid 50% of the time, plays Cat dps maybe another 33% of his raid time and goes Boomkin or his raid team has no problems healing any of the fights and want more dps on the fights with fewer healers.

Also, the gear itself does not improve your toon's performance evenly either. An extra 8 ilvl on your main hand weapon is a MUCH bigger upgrade than 8 extra ilvls on a necklace piece. The higher the starting ilvl the bigger the benefit too.

Weapon(s) > Trinkets > High-stat armor pieces (helm, chest, pants) > shoulders > Low-stat armor (bracers, boots, caster OH) > Jewelry (necklace, rings)

If you're already fully 3k VP capped, and get 1k VP in the first week of 5.4.8, you can upgrade 8 pieces right away. For most, the biggest benefit would be the first 6 on the list (weapon, trinkets, high-stat armor like helm, chest and pants), then either your OS's weapon or another armor piece like shoulders. But still there's plenty of choices, and some players would prefer to upgrade their BiS heroic warforged first then anything else they have.

Ok you start with blizzard giving you choices then end with not having a choice. Because everyone upgrades items in the same priority. This isn't giving you choices it's just adding a grind to an already outdated raid to hold on to their sub numbers, which are probably already falling.

[Sul]

You do 2-4 million DPS? I'm not sure how you got 1-2% dps as 40k.

will have to find the post again --may have been a 40k damage increase as in 1 to 2% overall damage done , not dps

[apepi]

How about just leave the instance and gear alone? What is wrong with it the way it is now?

[Anzen]

will have to find the post again --may have been a 40k damage increase as in 1 to 2% overall damage done , not dps

This still doesn't really make sense, the 40k number may be fairly plausible though. Assuming people do ~500k DPS in BiS gear, it would be an ~8% DPS increase like the devs also said.

[Sul]

Capping valor looks like it just got easier

http://www.wowhead.com/forums&topic=239109&p=3674068

[Post]

most guilds on my server cant fill a 10 man roster yet alone a 25 man one. mine is lucky to raid once every 3 weeks . We take raiding seriously - we take real life even more so

The "I have a life" argument is dumb. There are guilds that raid 1-2 days a week for 3-4 hrs per raid that are 14/14h. You don't need to sacrifice real life for that.

[Tyrgannus]

Only in the Bizarro-world of WoW could people see an additional opportunity to upgrade gear as "punishment."

This. 1000 times this.

[Sul]

This still doesn't really make sense, the 40k number may be fairly plausible though. Assuming people do ~500k DPS in BiS gear, it would be an ~8% DPS increase like the devs also said.

Yeah agree , been trying to find the original post --was in one of the threads on MMO-C . next time will check maths myself instead of blindly quoting something I read

[Gsara]

If you need a nerf at this point of the xpac to finish the last raid that has been out for 6+ months, you need a lot more than just nerfs to the content.

[zknm7]

Only in the Bizarro-world of WoW could people see an additional opportunity to upgrade gear as "punishment."

This right here. This is exactly what I was thinking as I read some of these posts, but when I read what this guy wrote I spewed the water I was drinking out of my nose. Like he said, only in WoW would people bitch and moan about something like this.

[Sul]

The "I have a life" argument is dumb. There are guilds that raid 1-2 days a week for 3-4 hrs per raid that are 14/14h. You don't need to sacrifice real life for that.

agreed --we actually schedule 2 nights a week , however we have the bare 10 raiders , most nights we are lucky to have 4 on for various reasons . We , and most guilds on my server , have been recruiting since the expansion started ( we had 2 complete teams in DS , we have two left of each team ) . The biggest problems is too many guilds and we are all too stubborn to merge

[Thunderball]

I think the change is targeted towards people who are lacking in skill/coordination to kill stuff but are still trying, so the change will give them an additional advantage to beat those bosses. That doesnt derail the raid that much to keep people interested and denies the crowd who doesnt want to wipe but would be interested in those epics for free even though they dont mean anything.

[Post]

agreed --we actually schedule 2 nights a week , however we have the bare 10 raiders , most nights we are lucky to have 4 on for various reasons . We , and most guilds on my server , have been recruiting since the expansion started ( we had 2 complete teams in DS , we have two left of each team ) . The biggest problems is too many guilds and we are all too stubborn to merge

K, well that has nothing to do with taking real life seriously.

[Deleted]

Upgrades aren't technically nerfs. Don't even start with this *Earn it* crap. It's a tired argument.

Tired but still valid.

[Palinn]

I don't know why Blizzard walked away from the ICC/DS models where you had a buff that increased gradually over time that you could turn off. This allowed guilds to progress, gave people hope if they were stuck on bosses, and still provided guilds with the option of turning off the buff if they wanted the "greatest challenge".

As per item upgrades.. they're a boring feature that was added to help justify the downfall of valor/justice points. They don't bring anything interesting to me as a player.