Lava Burst vs. Pyroblast

[Blithe]

So now that Hansol has posted a video on his new Fire Mage build, it makes instant Lava Bursts and its procs look like nothing in comparison. Does this mean people can stop complaining about our mechanic?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCEQOdiaXO8

[Tehterokkar]

Comparing Apples to Oranges. The only thing the 2 spells share is color.

Edit: Watched Video, he was VSing shit geared people. Post +2.2k Arena vids next time if you want to be taken seriously

[Blithe]

Comparing Apples to Oranges. The only thing the 2 spells share is color.

Edit: Watched Video, he was VSing shit geared people. Post +2.2k Arena vids next time if you want to be taken seriously

How? They're basically the same mechanic, Starsurge can even be included here, and by all means go ahead and outright attack me, it really goes to show what kind of person you are. Looking at your signature, it can even be assumed that you don't even play Shaman nor Mage, so you could clearly be trolling.

This video is a justifiable enough reason not to have a cry over Lava Burst procs anymore. I don't need to post 2200 bullshit to prove that this type of mechanic is exceeding even Lava Burst's.

I guess you're a Lava Burst crybaby?

[Tehterokkar]

How? They're basically the same mechanic, Starsurge can even be included here, and by all means go ahead and outright attack me, it really goes to show what kind of person you are. Looking at your signature, it can even be assumed that you don't even play Shaman nor Mage, so you could clearly be trolling.

This video is a justifiable enough reason not to have a cry over Lava Burst procs anymore. I don't need to post 2200 bullshit to prove that this type of mechanic is exceeding even Lava Burst's.

I guess you're a Lava Burst crybaby?

They are not even close to being the same...

Starsurge and Lavaburst are the same mechanic(CD with DoTs that reset it)

Pyroblast! scales heavily from gear, you need to score 2 critical hits in a row or 1 + Inferno Blast(8s CD).

Also the damage of each of the 3 spells is completely different.
Some stats from our last 25HC Iron Juggernaut Kill:
Druid Starsurge: 585.5k Avg crit
Ele Shaman Lava Burst: 400k Avg crit
Fire mage Pyroblast!: 475k Avg crit

You can't compare different spells of different classes together. Classes are balanced around different mechanics in mind such as:
Mages: You have to actually CAST something to get procs, an Ele shaman can be polymorphed/stunned and still get a proc
Elemental Shamans: DoT up enemies for increased chance to get Lava Surge proc
Balance Druids: Multi-dot people and spam Starsurge(which FYI, was heavily nerfed going into patch 5.4)

Also Elemental has Ascendance as their CD where Lava Burst has no CD, but usually it's just a sign "CC ME PLS" in PvP.

Mages have way higher crit chance in PvE at heroic SoO ilvls(and are uncontrollable in DPS because of this), and the mage in the video is spamming Scorch, which is a massive DPS loss where an Elemental Shaman uses Lightning Bolt as their filler in PvP which does significantly more DPS and can also be cast while moving while granting charges of Lightning Shield.

[Blithe]

They are not even close to being the same...

Starsurge and Lavaburst are the same mechanic(CD with DoTs that reset it)

Pyroblast! scales heavily from gear, you need to score 2 critical hits in a row or 1 + Inferno Blast(8s CD).

Also the damage of each of the 3 spells is completely different.
Some stats from our last 25HC Iron Juggernaut Kill:
Druid Starsurge: 585.5k Avg crit
Ele Shaman Lava Burst: 400k Avg crit
Fire mage Pyroblast!: 475k Avg crit

You can't compare different spells of different classes together. Classes are balanced around different mechanics in mind such as:
Mages: You have to actually CAST something to get procs, an Ele shaman can be polymorphed/stunned and still get a proc
Elemental Shamans: DoT up enemies for increased chance to get Lava Surge proc
Balance Druids: Multi-dot people and spam Starsurge(which FYI, was heavily nerfed going into patch 5.4)

Also Elemental has Ascendance as their CD where Lava Burst has no CD, but usually it's just a sign "CC ME PLS" in PvP.

Mages have way higher crit chance in PvE at heroic SoO ilvls(and are uncontrollable in DPS because of this), and the mage in the video is spamming Scorch, which is a massive DPS loss where an Elemental Shaman uses Lightning Bolt as their filler in PvP which does significantly more DPS and can also be cast while moving while granting charges of Lightning Shield.

But when you take the speed at which you're able to gain the proc into account, they're very similar.

Shaman
30% chance per 3 second tick.
6 second cooldown.

Druid
30% (60% if both MF and SF) per 3 second critical tick.
No cooldown.

Mage
2 critical strikes.
Cast time.

While it may not proc off of a damage over time ability, Pyroblast is quite similar to Lava Burst and Starsurge. All three abilities are balanced around their statistics, and roughly deal equal damage, for example: Lava Burst hits for average damage, but is balanced with Elemental's Mastery in mind because there will be two of them in some cases. Starsurge is balanced in mind that Balance will acquire the procs a little slower due to critical strike playing a big part, so its damage is boosted to compensate. Pyroblast follows the same mentality as Starsurge, being balanced around critical strike rating and acquiring slower, for larger damage. Hansol's build puts a hole in this, increasing critical strike rating to the point where Scorch can be spammed for a reliable Pyroblast within a 3 second window. That's like Lightning Bolt being able to proc Lava Surge, for example.

I'm not crying for a nerf for Fire at all, and it's even my favourite Mage specialization, but what I'm talking about is Hansol's Scorch build overthrows Lava Burst's seemingly overpowered mechanic. I'm just sick of people complaining about how overpowered Lava Burst is (literally it's all you hear), so I thought this would be a reasonable example for something other than Lava Burst that they can complain about.

Take it however you want, but I'm not crying for nerfs at all.

[PosPosPos]

I guess you're a Lava Burst crybaby?

I guess you aren't aware you're a crybaby hypocrite?

You do realize you are the one comparing 2 spells belonging to 2 different classes played in 2 different manners in the same vacuum.

This is about as facepalm worthy as comparing Shadow Word: Pain and Flame Shock saying the former is better.

[Tehterokkar]

Spamming Scorch is where you lose DPS, sure you get more Pyroblast! procs, but Scorch does F- all compared to Fireball.

How many Fire Mages in PvE do you see spamming Scorch for situations other than movement? None.

Fire is a gimmick spec that only works once you acquire a certain level of gear since the entire spec's Damage and mechanic is built around Crits.

[Blithe]

I guess you aren't aware you're a crybaby hypocrite?

You do realize you are the one comparing 2 spells belonging to 2 different classes played in 2 different manners in the same vacuum.

This is about as facepalm worthy as comparing Shadow Word: Pain and Flame Shock saying the former is better.

I'm not a hypocrite at all. I'm comparing MECHANICS, which all three aforementioned abilities have in some form or another and are quite similar. By all means don't assess the situation either, quote me, call me a hypocrite and then use a pseudo-analogy because that solves things, right? A comparison of three very similar abilities that work off of very similar mechanics is not face palm worthy at all.

- - - Updated - - -

Spamming Scorch is where you lose DPS, sure you get more Pyroblast! procs, but Scorch does F- all compared to Fireball.

How many Fire Mages in PvE do you see spamming Scorch for situations other than movement? None.

Fire is a gimmick spec that only works once you acquire a certain level of gear since the entire spec's Damage and mechanic is built around Crits.

It might give less damage than Fireball, but it still results in Pyroblast procs on the move. I'm not comparing it to PvE at all either, this is a PvP scenario.

Granted Fire is a gimmick spec, what I'm trying to say is using *this* build when you play Fire (in PvP) gives reason enough to divert complaints around Lava Burst since they use similar mechanics, there's nothing wrong with that.

[Nebria]

what I See is that fir mage while moving can do scorch damage and instant pyroblasts. that'S again something on the "cast while moving stuff", how much damage it is^^
but I think there was enough writtern about this topic.

So now that Hansol has posted a video on his new Fire Mage build, it makes instant Lava Bursts and its procs look like nothing in comparison. Does this mean people can stop complaining about our mechanic?

what exactly do you mean?

I think the complain about LvB is that you can FS multiple people and than profit from the lava surge procs.
Like Tehterokkar said the mechanic is different. You could run araound and do nothing and still be able to fire instant LvBs. And cause of EoE and Mastery the chance is high it gets duplicated. Pyro doesn't have this. And you have to cast Scorch of course. On the other side you can dispell FS wich totally destroy LvBs performance and proc changes. That is not possible for pyro.

So the only thing thy have in common is some proc that makes them instant, the graphics, and that there is a way to incrasse the proc rate.^^

However what makes this fire mage playstyle strong in PvP is that you can't interrupt it is as much. Scorch is a very short cast. It allows the mage to run around like a headless chicken and then thrown instant Pyros in my face...
Combined this with all the stuns fire has (and one trigger is used to get pyro procs) it can be really a nightmare. Much more threat than some lucky proc ele with some instant LvB in a row.

[Illana]

you're doing the exact same thing as the other thread, only this time you're not just supporting a guy arbitrarily comparing skills you think are similar: you're the one doing it.

Nobody said lava burst was OP even, where did you get that from? You play a video of some gladiator fire mage wrecking noobs in half tyrannical gear in random bgs and then say "oh lava burst is nothing in comparison"

why don't you link a video like this as well so people can make a fair comparison instead of reading this biased crap?

Also where did you get this idea that lava surge has a cooldown? It doesn't. More misinformation and more proof you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Lavindar]

Also where did you get this idea that lava surge has a cooldown? It doesn't. More misinformation and more proof you have no idea what you are talking about.

He was talking about the cooldown of the spells cast to make the proc happen, in this case the cooldown if of Flame Shock.

[Illana]

He was talking about the cooldown of the spells cast to make the proc happen, in this case the cooldown if of Flame Shock.

ok that makes more sense.

[Deleted]

Comparing an individual spell to another individual spell is pointless and a waste of time anyway. The individual spells make up one component of the class.

[zenga]

But when you take the speed at which you're able to gain the proc into account, they're very similar.

Shaman
30% chance per 3 second tick.
6 second cooldown.

Druid
30% (60% if both MF and SF) per 3 second critical tick.
No cooldown.

Mage
2 critical strikes.
Cast time.

Lava Surge has a 20% proc chance per tick, not a 30%.
6s cd of what? Flame Shock has a 5s cd and lava burst an 8s.

[shammypie]

Spamming Scorch is where you lose DPS, sure you get more Pyroblast! procs, but Scorch does F- all compared to Fireball.

How many Fire Mages in PvE do you see spamming Scorch for situations other than movement? None.

Fire is a gimmick spec that only works once you acquire a certain level of gear since the entire spec's Damage and mechanic is built around Crits.

you really should stop quoting PVE mechanics in a pvp thread.