Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill 1.1

[Deleted]

I, too, would like to see where they twisted or attempted to twist facts or the context into making the person being quoted in the article look more important.

They said he's the mayor of Ventspils and that he's been one since 1988. Is either one of those a lie? If not, please explain to me how it's been twisted.

Lembergs is Palin of Latvia, he still has 5-6 cases in courts of corruption.He constantly comes out with this type of PR slogans,something like Jerry Falwell did when bastard was still around.He is recieving shitstorm from public and his own party members - Defence Minister.He`s like a troll but with huge interests and business in Russia, in fact few days ago - as local journalists caught him - he visited russian embassy and when confronted what he did there,he denied any accusation.When journalists provided photo evidence of him entering and leaving, he got all pale and just said he has to go.

Quoting him would be like me quoting Vitilay Milinov as if to paint a realistic picture of russian politicians and public opinion,as article tries to hint.He also has appeared and been interviewed on russian mainstream TV a lot with even more idiotic statements
I mean,saying NATO are occupants..turn on your common sense.

Sorry for off-topic.

In the Donetsk region , where the bullets were Russian journalists continues to remain extremely tense. Guide the self-proclaimed " People's Republic of Donetsk " put Kiev ultimatum for an hour Ukrainian troops should be withdrawn from the region. Otherwise will total destruction .

" It remains to 1 hour prior to the expiration of the ultimatum Ukrainian invaders them to remove illegal roadblocks and pulled back troops and equipment from the cities of Donbass. Otherwise - the total destruction of all: the equipment and manpower fascists " - wrote on his Facebook page " People's Governor " Donetsk Paul Gubarev .

A representative of DNR warned residents of Donbass that transition occurs on a war footing . " Make every effort to help the army to destroy the Ukrainian People's Militia invaders of our land ! " - He called

http://newsru.com/world/15may2014/ult.html
Lazy to fix mistakes there but you got the point.

Also important to note that Donbass coal miners dont support all this shit.

[Darkis]

On a side note: The person who successfully coined the term "dialogue" to be used instead of "negotiations" when talking about politics needs to be sent to the gulag.

For once i agree with you on something)

[Creotor]

Lembergs is Palin of Latvia, he still has 5-6 cases in courts of corruption.He constantly comes out with this type of PR slogans,something like Jerry Falwell did when bastard was still around.He is recieving shitstorm from public and his own party members - Defence Minister.He`s like a troll but with huge interests and business in Russia, in fact few days ago - as local journalists caught him - he visited russian embassy and when confronted what he did there,he denied any accusation.When journalists provided photo evidence of him entering and leaving, he got all pale and just said he has to go.

Quoting him would be like me quoting Vitilay Milinov as if to paint a realistic picture of russian politicians and public opinion,as article tries to hint.He also has appeared and been interviewed on russian mainstream TV a lot with even more idiotic statements
I mean,saying NATO are occupants..turn on your common sense.

http://newsru.com/world/15may2014/ult.html
Lazy to fix mistakes there but you got the point.

Also important to note that Donbass coal miners dont support all this shit.

Ok, so it's about his opinion being irrelevant due to him being a piece of shit who's sold out to Russia (that's the picture I'd say you painted). His opinion, you say, shouldn't count because of that. The problem with that is most of what's quoted there from his speech is claims, not his opinion. Claims along the lines of sailors getting drunk and acting like jackasses. Do you believe they are not trustworthy or exaggerated?

The opinion part is where he's opposed to NATO forces being present and calls it occupation. You claim that's nonsense and advise me to turn on common sense. Do you think the Czech government also has common sense turned off? They don't want those troops on their lands and said it'd remind them of the time when Soviets were the occupants. There were also people in the thread that's now locked that were opposed to NATO forces being present in their countries. I believe Willian and Wildtree made statements along those lines, possibly others as well. All of them, common sense turned off?

Lugansk miners aren't . Care to provide yours? Preferably, one after the fire in Odessa.

[Cybran]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/16/wo...l.html?hp&_r=1

The workers are employees of Rinat Akhmetov, Ukraine’s richest man and a recent convert to the side of Ukrainian unity, who on Wednesday issued a statement rejecting the separatist cause of the self-styled Donetsk People’s Republic but endorsing greater local autonomy. His decision to throw his weight fully behind the interim government in Kiev could inflict a body blow to the separatists, already reeling from Russian President Vladimir V. Putin’s withdrawal of full-throated support last week.

Wearing only their protective clothing and hard-hats, the workers said they were “outside politics” and just trying to establish order. Faced with waves of steelworkers joined by the police, the pro-Russian protesters have melted away, as has any sign of the Donetsk People’s Republic or its representatives. Backhoes and dump trucks from the steelworkers’ factory dismantled all the barricades that had been erected.

Metinvest and DTEK, the two subsidiaries in metals and mining of Mr. Akhmetov’s company, System Capital Management, together employ 280,000 people in eastern Ukraine, forming an important and possibly decisive force in the region. They have a history of political activism stretching back to miner strikes that helped bring down the Soviet Union. In this conflict, they had not previously signaled their allegiance to one side or the other.

Yeah right. The richest oligrach in Ukraine went to the meeting in Kiev where he got god knows what kind of sweet deal to back the muppets using his workers as human shields.

Fucking democracy my ass.

[Creotor]

Ihor Kolomoisky, the billionaire governor of one of the Ukrainian regions will continue military exports to Russia despite it being embargoed by the current govt of Ukraine.
Deputy Prime Minister Vitaly Yarema has also admitted the embargo was put in place at the request of the US. Source in Russian only, on a Ukrainian website (it's all over the Russian web as well, however).

Another masterpiece, also in Russian.
Ukraine is ready to go back to the idea of borrowing $15BN from Russia, Ukrainian Finance Minister Alexander Shlapak stated at the meeting of European Bank for Reconstruction and Development on Thursday. "When we discussed our gas conflict earlier, we offered to go back to the idea of borrowing $15BN and returning to normal business relations. Pay us a tranche of $2BN as it was promised in January and we'll immediately use that money to pay back our gas debt. Unfortunately, an agreement on that was never reached," - Shlapak said.

[Skroe]

If Tziva will keep skro out of this thread, this thread can be quite calm, because he is the most toxic poster in this forum.

Nah I'm just the direct and call Team Russia on their epic amounts of bullshit. As for that title... you should go see Cybran's European Conspiracy thread. Poor guy stood up on stage, tried to sell his wares and the audience threw rocks at him.

But I'm glad I've made such an impression on you.

And yes, I'm glad this thread is back!

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Russia wouldn't have anything against EU if their position wasn't "you have to choose between us and ECC Customs union".

Why again should Russia have a veto over Ukrainian foreign and economic policy?

[Haven]

Now who could've thought that a mere thread lock could quench the urge to fling shit at each other? And I almost started to hope this was over...

[Cynep]

And presidential candidates are getting death threats, though i guess that's not surprise to anyone...

Tsaryov is not a presidential candidate. On May 2 he revoked his candidature and got his $300k back (yes we have stupid laws from our previous rulers), now he's just a separatist leader.

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Rinat Akhmetov, Ukraine’s richest man and a recent convert to the side of Ukrainian unity

Yeah, he previously planned to wait this whole thing out, but separatists are hurting our region, including his business. If he finally decides to act, law and order will be restored in his region. You should note that his Dnipropetrovsk peer Kolomoysky decided to act immediately, and his region is a quiet place despite having more potential pro-Russians than Odessa or Kharkiv. A strong governor can easily suppress criminals if he wants to.

[Cynep]

Why again should Russia have a veto over Ukrainian foreign and economic policy?

From non-Russian point of view you're obviously right. But for Russian imperialism Ukraine is crucial. We were the jewel of Russian crown, like India for the British. Without Ukraine, Russia is doomed to forever be second-rate power at best.

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Because Ukraine has a big debt, so they are Russia's bitch until it gets paid.

USA owes many times more money to China, should China have a veto over USA actions now?

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Oh, and to those wondering why Russia has to buy French ships, Ukraine has the USSR shipyard now in Mykolayiv city, another reason for "concerned citizens" to appear on our soil.

[Seo]

USA owes many times more money to China, should China have a veto over USA actions now?

It would be great actually.

[dozor]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/16/wo...l.html?hp&_r=0

MARIUPOL, Ukraine — Thousands of steelworkers fanned out on Thursday through the city of Mariupol, establishing control over the streets and banishing the pro-Kremlin militants who until recently had seemed to be consolidating their grip on power, dealing a setback to Russia and possibly reversing the momentum in eastern Ukraine.

The workers, who were wearing only their protective clothing and hard hats, said they were “outside politics” and were just trying to establish order. Faced with waves of steelworkers joined by the police, the pro-Russian protesters melted away, along with signs of the self-declared Donetsk People’s Republic and its representatives. Backhoes and dump trucks from the steelworkers’ factory dismantled the barricades that separatists had erected.

[Elegiac]

Putin's ratings reached historical maximum. According to recent poll, 85.9% Russians support him and his actions.

A hundred years since the last Tsar, and very little has changed.

[Seo]

A hundred years since the last Tsar, and very little has changed.

You say it as if monarchy is something bad.

[Elegiac]

You say it as if monarchy is something bad.

It is. Especially authoritarian monarchy.

The fact of the matter is that George Kennan's assessment of Russia's motivations and conduct remains entirely accurate.

[Seo]

It is. Especially authoritarian monarchy.

No it's not. It's much better than false democracy controlled by oligarchs / corporations. Actually, I consider monarchy as the best social structure.

[Elegiac]

It's much better than false democracy controlled by oligarchs

How appropriate, given that we are talking about Russia.

[Seo]

Change "Russia" to "US" and the meaning will be the same. Exactly why I'm talking about false democracy.

[Haven]

It is. Especially authoritarian monarchy.

No it's not. It's much better than false democracy controlled by oligarchs / corporations. Actually, I consider monarchy as the best social structure.

How appropriate, given that we are talking about Russia.

That reminds me of Ukrainian media coverage of referendum in Eastern Ukraine. Various sources simultaneously claimed that:
- Referendum was illegal
- No one came to the referendum
- People were herded at gunpoint
- Results were all falsified
- Majority actually voted for united Ukraine under Kiev
- Only pro-Russian terrorists participated in the referendum
To sum it up: Russian terrorists led Russian terrorists at gunpoint to a referendum to which no one came, but the majority managed to illegally vote for united Ukraine, which is a falsified result.

Morale of the story: at least settle down with the scenario you use. Accusing Russia using mutually exclusive paragraphs puts you in an incovenient position

[Cynep]

To sum it up: Russian terrorists led Russian terrorists at gunpoint to a referendum to which no one came, but the majority managed to illegally vote for united Ukraine, which is a falsified result.

Not bad we could be friends if our countries weren't at war. From what I've personally seen and heard it was like this:
- our law doesn't allow regional referendums so yes it was illegal
- people came voluntarily
- I saw no armed men
- vast majority voted "yes"
- real attendance was about 1/3 - 1/2 of recent elections which had 59% and 67%, so "referendum" had 25-35%
- people were multi-voting at unknown rate, I personally saw a woman from Mariupol vote in Donetsk; my pro-Ukraine pensioner neighbor said he voted "no" both for himself and his wife who didn't attend.

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More news about Ukraine, an interview with former USA ambassador to Russia has a very truthful part:

Somebody had to lead the country after Yanukovych fled, and so the elected parliament ... elected a temporary government. In Russia they're described as an illegitimate government dominated by Nazis. Nazis and NATO. The two enemies from Soviet history have been resurrected as the two principle protagonists in this conflict. And literally the word "Nazi" is used every five minutes to describe anybody in Ukraine that doesn't support the Russian point of view. ... It's part of the continuation of the enemy, you know, Russia being surrounded by NATO and Nazis.

http://www.npr.org/2014/05/15/312822...an-for-ukraine

Also, is economist.com Ukrainian propaganda? They claim that "polls find that only 5% want Donetsk to become a state and another 27% want to join Russia". This is very close to what I'm seeing with my own eyes. People don't trust the interim government - hell, I don't - but only a small minority believes we could actually be better off in Russia, certainly not those who understand how our heavy industry works. And definitely Donbass won't survive as a standalone state, not without losing all our industry.
http://www.economist.com/news/europe...ay-25th-battle

[Skulkgra]

Not bad we could be friends if our countries weren't at war. From what I've personally seen and heard it was like this:
- our law doesn't allow regional referendums so yes it was illegal
- people came voluntarily
- I saw no armed men
- vast majority voted "yes"
- real attendance was about 1/3 - 1/2 of recent elections which had 59% and 67%, so "referendum" had 25-35%
- people were multi-voting at unknown rate, I personally saw a woman from Mariupol vote in Donetsk; my pro-Ukraine pensioner neighbor said he voted "no" both for himself and his wife who didn't attend.

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More news about Ukraine, an interview with former USA ambassador to Russia has a very truthful part:

http://www.npr.org/2014/05/15/312822...an-for-ukraine

Also, is economist.com Ukrainian propaganda? They claim that "polls find that only 5% want Donetsk to become a state and another 27% want to join Russia". This is very close to what I'm seeing with my own eyes. People don't trust the interim government - hell, I don't - but only a small minority believes we could actually be better off in Russia, certainly not those who understand how our heavy industry works. And definitely Donbass won't survive as a standalone state, not without losing all our industry.
http://www.economist.com/news/europe...ay-25th-battle

Since when would an american ambassador speak truthfully about what is happening to Russia? He's serving the department of State's interests.
The referendum in Eastern Ukraine is as much legal as is the current government in Ukraine, and it's "acting"(lol) president.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIGtKBZVt2U Since when would a speaker of parliament of a "democratic" country deny the right of speech to the leader of parliamentary faction?