Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill 1.1

[Kellhound]

You can also question US growth reports (with their constantly changing methodology) in the same way.

It would unravel current world trade system though; which would, in fact, lead to more jobs in America as outsourcing manufacturing would become unsustainable.

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You probably can find other business opinion and then claim "opinions are divided"!

...until you do though it's "all businesses at best grudgingly agree not to disobey their government with most asking for sanctions to be dropped as soon as possible".

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Well, we're also undermining petrodollar. And to some extent NATO as some Eastern European countries start having serious doubts that they'll get any help if push comes to shove, and start looking at possibilities to befriend Russia instead...

Never say never :P

Obviously everyone loves their domestic brand of totalitarianism more - it's acquired taste.

The Baltics and Poland will never turn back to Russia.

US doesn't qualify as totalitarian, no matter how much you wish it did.

[Haven]

We're as afraid of Russia as we are of North Korea. Both are ruled by power crazed expansionists who love to measure their nuke sizes.
The only "fear" I have from the recent events is economic in nature, because Putin's childish tantrums will hurt all our pockets.

Seriously? You're now comparing Russia to North Korea? Like, seriously?

[Ausr]

Seriously? You're now comparing Russia to North Korea? Like, seriously?

Both say and do crazy off the wall shit to get notice when the attention isn't on them.

[Cybran]

Define "all". I see one business lobbying group saying this. Not every economist/CEO/businessman in Germany

http://www.economist.com/news/europe...w-best-use-her



All of those who don't want their country to sink into another recession because of Washington. The Leader of Europe can't afford the sanctions.

[Ulmita]

Seriously? You're now comparing Russia to North Korea? Like, seriously?

They have no clue what they are saying brother. They don't even understand what has happened in the past few months.
Everyone is looking what happened in Ukraine and not who or why that started.

I would love to see how would US or any other country behave if that happened to them.

[Olo]

http://www.economist.com/news/europe...w-best-use-her
snip
All of those who don't want their country to sink into another recession because of Washington. The Leader of Europe can't afford the sanctions.

"Even exports, usually the strongest part of Germany’s economy, are wobbling: in August they shrank by 5.8% from July, a bigger drop than can be explained by either the pattern of holidays or sanctions on Russia."

Only one line in that entire article that even mentions sanctions. The focus of the article is domestic polices and the failure of austerity.

[Skroe]

They have no clue what they are saying brother. They don't even understand what has happened in the past few months.
Everyone is looking what happened in Ukraine and not who or why that started.

I would love to see how would US or any other country behave if that happened to them.

Actually you're wrong about that. 'everyone" did look at what happened in Ukraine and who started it and why.

You just don't like the answer that the West arrived at.

It's just sad at this point, that you're still taking this argumentative direction. You're like the last holdout of a lost cause. Whining - and let's be clear, it is whining - that poor Russia is just a misunderstood victim of circumstance isn't going to suddenly fix this situation, rollback sanctions or do anything else.

Russia enters 2015 a pariah and a rogue state. And Team Putin excused it all year long.

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"Even exports, usually the strongest part of Germany’s economy, are wobbling: in August they shrank by 5.8% from July, a bigger drop than can be explained by either the pattern of holidays or sanctions on Russia."

Only one line in that entire article that even mentions sanctions. The focus of the article is domestic polices and the failure of austerity.

Don't worry, Cybran didn't actually read the article. He just google'd a link because he's running low on ammunition.

[Cybran]

Only one line in that entire article that even mentions sanctions. The focus of the article is domestic polices and the failure of austerity.

Their economy depends on Russian trade and energy supplies. You realize that don't you? They need to avoid recession, but the sanctions are a major factor that can screw them over. I mean, it's not hard?

[Marcellus1986]

Their economy depends on Russian trade and energy supplies. You realize that don't you? They need to avoid recession, but the sanctions are a major factor that can screw them over. I mean, it's not hard?

Russia isn't even Germany's largest trading partner lol. They aren't even in the top 10 list of countries Germany trades with.

[Skroe]

Their economy depends on Russian trade and energy supplies. You realize that don't you? They need to avoid recession, but the sanctions are a major factor that can screw them over. I mean, it's not hard?

See what Marcellus said. It's in fact not hard.



Wrong as usual Cybran. Wrong. As. Usual.

[Baneth]

They have no clue what they are saying brother. They don't even understand what has happened in the past few months.
Everyone is looking what happened in Ukraine and not who or why that started.

I would love to see how would US or any other country behave if that happened to them.

Are you seriously going to parrot the same asinine rhetoric Djalil did before he was banned? That ALL EU leaders, plus Japan and Australia, not to mention the countless citizens (and those who frequent this forum as well, seeing how a majority of the posters are from the EU, and do not agree with your position) don't understand/know what happened?

You really should stick to your usual shtick, about how great Russia's military is, when you clearly have no idea what your talking about. At least that is amusing.

[Cybran]

Russia isn't even Germany's largest trading partner lol. They aren't even in the top 10 list of countries Germany trades with.

They don't need to be to undermine their recovery.

[Baneth]

Looks like Germany is also blaming the Russian backed/armed rebels for the MH17 crash as well.

Germany blames pro-Russian rebels for MH17 passenger plane crash: Spiegel

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...edName=topNews

" Germany's BND foreign intelligence agency has concluded that pro-Russian rebels are to blame for the downing of Malaysia Airline MH17 in Ukraine in July, Der Spiegel weekly reported on Sunday, the first European agency to say so."

[Deleted]

I prefer our best ton for ton warships.

Do you watch UFC?

[Cybran]

" Germany's BND foreign intelligence agency has concluded that pro-Russian rebels are to blame for the downing of Malaysia Airline MH17 in Ukraine in July, Der Spiegel weekly reported on Sunday, the first European agency to say so."

Once again Spiegel points finger without a shred of evidence.

[Skroe]

Looks like Germany is also blaming the Russian backed/armed rebels for the MH17 crash as well.

Germany blames pro-Russian rebels for MH17 passenger plane crash: Spiegel

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...edName=topNews

" Germany's BND foreign intelligence agency has concluded that pro-Russian rebels are to blame for the downing of Malaysia Airline MH17 in Ukraine in July, Der Spiegel weekly reported on Sunday, the first European agency to say so."

I'm shocked... shocked!... that Occam's Razor came through yet again, and not some Olympics Gold Medal winning logical gymnastics routine whereby it was anyone but pro-Russian rebels with Russian help who screwed up.

Of course Team Putin will never fess up to it. They aren't strong enough people to defend their position, even against the backdrop of a catastrophe. Everything must be perfect in their little world. It's really pathological. Countless great causes and arguments what not have been made despite being tainted by colossal mistakes, disasters, bad decisions and so forth. "Bad with the good" is part of the real world, where nothing goes according to plan.

And boy it is telling about the psychology of Team Putin that not a single one of them was able to say "Yeah it was probably the Rebels with Russian embedded help, screwing up massively and mistaking it for another Ukrainian cargo airplane." But then again, everything involving Russia in the past year has been a pathological exercise in dishonesty on their part.

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Once again Spiegel points finger without a shred of evidence.

No.... Der Spiegel is reporting the BND's conclusions, conclusions based on the BND's evidence... not you know, Der Spiegel's own conclusions, which would require them to present their evidence. They are just merely saying "this is what the BND thinks". It's up to the BND to say why they think that, not Der Spiegel.

[Shalcker]

Looks like Germany is also blaming the Russian backed/armed rebels for the MH17 crash as well.

Germany blames pro-Russian rebels for MH17 passenger plane crash: Spiegel

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...edName=topNews

" Germany's BND foreign intelligence agency has concluded that pro-Russian rebels are to blame for the downing of Malaysia Airline MH17 in Ukraine in July, Der Spiegel weekly reported on Sunday, the first European agency to say so."

Wait, "that separatists had used a Russian Buk missile defense system from a Ukrainian base"?
Well, that's good to hear, Russia is not involved at all! Which Ukrainian base btw, maybe we can pin it to Ukrainians totally? :P

[Marcellus1986]

Wait, "that separatists had used a Russian Buk missile defense system from a Ukrainian base"?
Well, that's good to hear, Russia is not involved at all! Which Ukrainian base btw, maybe we can pin it to Ukrainians totally? :P

Pin it on the Ukrainians? How? It says "used by pro-Russian rebels". Pinning it on the Ukrainian military completely requires so many leaps in logic, you might as well say aliens shot down MH-17.

[Baneth]

derp

It's quoted by the German intelligence agency, that it was done by Pro-Russian separatists. Several times. You can intentionally be obtuse, but that still wont make it go away. Germany blames your rebels, that you backed.

[Olo]

Pin it on the Ukrainians? How? It says "used by pro-Russian rebels". Pinning it on the Ukrainian military completely requires so many leaps in logic, you might as well say aliens shot down MH-17.

I don't think that would be a problem for them. When Russian troops were captured/killed in Ukraine they attributed it soldiers on vacation.