Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill 1.1

[Crispin]

It's funny how you think that the West can turn Ukraine from a corrupt state into a replica of Germany within a year Shalcker, while it's nice to see you think so highly of us, it's really setting the bar way too high.

Japan and South Korea are pretty good examples of the timeframe and possible result of western help, I guess North Korea is somewhat the Russian 'example'

[Deleted]

While NK was backed first by USSR and later by China.

It was china the USSR is a small or non factor at least directly.

[Shalcker]

Thats out of the window ukraine hates russias guts.

Anything that changed so easily can be just as easily changed back; most Ukrainians understand that they couldn't keep Crimea, and noone is going to get Donbass into Russia - we really do prefer it remaining part of Ukraine. They can have it, honest - once they stop shelling it into submission, that is.

Every agreement to give russia some room will be with clinched teeth.
Best case you can get is false neutrality like sweden.

As long as there are no NATO plans and agreements are reached in that regard it will be enough.

Show me russian media criticising Putin and surviving.

Dozhd? Echo of Moscow? They are still alive and kicking.

Then we can talk western media.

So?

[Elim Garak]

Hehe, I'm well aware of it, but figured you had no idea since it's not within the last 60 years, not sure why you'd hide it behind snide remarks, but I guess that's your way of hiding your insecurity when you fail to answer a simple question.

And now you are in the trap. You should learn from Kellhound how to avoid them.

there's no difference in military tech be it 60 years ago or 62 years ago. And his 60 years limit was as arbitrary as it gets.

[Crispin]

Anything that changed so easily can be just as easily changed back

This is a weird statement, does that mean that the worlds negative view on neo-nazis can easily be changed?

Respect is hard earned, loosing it is pretty damn easy.

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And now you are in the trap. You should learn from Kellhound how to avoid them.

there's no difference in military tech be it 60 years ago or 62 years ago. And his 60 years limit was as arbitrary as it gets.

I will be more careful to dodge your imaginary forum traps in the future....

[Deleted]

Anything that changed so easily can be just as easily changed back;

Please stop lying.

most Ukrainians understand that they couldn't keep Crimea, and noone is going to get Donbass into Russia - we really do prefer it remaining part of Ukraine. They can have it, honest - once they stop shelling it into submission, that is.

Donbass is the lifeline of crimea Russia wants direct control (full autonomy) or no peace.

Thats what russia wants not what it necessary gets.

[Aeno]

It's funny how you think that the West can turn Ukraine from a corrupt state into a replica of Germany within a year Shalcker, while it's nice to see you think so highly of us, it's really setting the bar way too high.

Japan and South Korea are pretty good examples of the timeframe and possible result of western help, I guess North Korea is somewhat the Russian 'example'

I thought that that was the bar that the West is saying would exist without Russian involvement? It's pretty clear that the politicians imply this with the anti-Russian rhetoric they spew regarding Ukraine's dire straits.

[Shalcker]

Because they all want to be part of the EU and not Russia?

Well, seeing that Ukraine is not going to get into EU for decades (see Turkey), why not make them neutral until it actually looks like it might happen soon?

[Deleted]

Well, seeing that Ukraine is not going to get into EU for decades (see Turkey), why not make them neutral until it actually looks like it might happen soon?

Lol Ukraine is not turkey man ....
Really Turkey has really really some issues Ukraine has not.

Without Russias rage Ukraine could be member tommorow jus to complete the collection.

[Shalcker]

Please stop lying.

You show no proofs of your conviction here.

Donbass is the lifeline of crimea Russia wants direct control (full autonomy) or no peace.

Please stop lying. Donbass is not even linked to Crimea in any way.

[Zonned]

Because they all want to be part of the EU and not Russia?

I think most baltic states have had their fill of Russia, Ukraine's people just weren't willing to take it anymore.

[Deleted]

You show no proofs of your conviction here.

Its just too stupid really. That statement is well.

Please stop lying. Donbass is not even linked to Crimea in any way.

Its called a bridge russia needs both parts.

[Crispin]

I thought that that was the bar that the West is saying would exist without Russian involvement? It's pretty clear that the politicians imply this with the anti-Russian rhetoric they spew regarding Ukraine's dire straits.

Where on earth did you read that the west could help Ukraine achive what south korea has within a year, if Russia werent involved?

[Aeno]

Lol Ukraine is not turkey man ....
Really Turkey has really really some issues Ukraine has not.

Without Russias rage Ukraine could be member tommorow jus to complete the collection.

Ukraine has been trying to apply/gain the EU's attention for a long time. The political scandals, corruption, and hyperinflation have crumbled every chance.

[Tierbook]

You should know better than that. It's reasonable to have greater losses for attacker than for defender. Which in this case was NK.
SK was backed by 28+ countries. While NK was backed first by USSR and later by China.
West dominated air at first until MiGs arrived (Chinese and USSRs) then air was controlled by NK. NK migs pilots were not trained in USSR, neithor were Chinese ones. But Soviet migs were piloted by Russian pilots. And the difference in loses between migs and f-86 - USSR vs West is not that huge. I can write it off to Attacker loses vs Defender.
Not to mention that F-86s arrived late to the party, before that Western airforces were raped.
Although NK failed to conquer SK, it wasn't a defeat for USSR.
Mig-15 and f-86 were evenly matched. only USSR had MiG-15 before USA got F-86.

SK was nearly taken over, once UN troops arrived, however, they pushed all the way back to the Chinese border. At which point it was numbers that started pushing the UN back not technology.... and even then it didn't take long for the tide to turn in the UN's favor yet again.

[Elim Garak]

This is a weird statement, does that mean that the worlds negative view on neo-nazis can easily be changed?

yes.

I will be more careful to dodge your imaginary forum traps in the future....

My traps are not imaginary. I specifically referenced korean war because it exceeded the 60 limitation by a year or two. Which is not important for the point being made. That was the cheese. for someone like you to ride on superiority horse and claim "YOU STOOPID THAT WAS MORE THAN 60 YEARS AGO, DUH". And you bit it. And I warned you so you didn't have to actually say that. And now you are downplaying it by playing "i'm too sexy for this" card

[Aeno]

Where on earth did you read that the west could help Ukraine achive what south korea has within a year, if Russia werent involved?

A "high expectations" bar, not specifically what you referred to.

[Ripster42]

And now you are in the trap. You should learn from Kellhound how to avoid them.

there's no difference in military tech be it 60 years ago or 62 years ago. And his 60 years limit was as arbitrary as it gets.

Are you sure it's that arbitrary, and not specifically 60 to exclude korea?

[Deleted]

Ukraine has been trying to apply/gain the EU's attention for a long time. The political scandals, corruption, and hyperinflation have crumbled every chance.

The EU would take them in as a favor for the US alone.

[Gangresnake]

Anything that changed so easily can be just as easily changed back

That's a completely empty statement. It never changed easily in the first place, Russia straight-up invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea.
Now to repair it, they'd have to give back crimea (which they wont) and support Ukraine financially (With money they dont have) as a sign of good-faith

It's obvious to anyone outside of this conflict that their relations are fucked for the next 50 years atleast