Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill 1.1

[Nadiru]

I'm not sure if I ever shared my feelings on programming "rant" (as I like to call it) on this forum, but here's the gist of it:

Children need to be taught to program starting in the first grade. Reading, Writing, Arithmetic, Programming. There is no more important language for a human being to be able to "speak" to be competitive in the global economy of the future than the language of machines. There will be a qualitative difference in career choices between people who can speak to machines by themselves and people who have to get someone else to do it for them.

I believe that computers and people are economically symbiotic in the world we're living in and moving to, and unless you can program a machine to do work to increase your productivity, your career choices will be limited one day. Bi-lingualism shouldn't be English and Spanish, or English and French or French and German, but your mother tongue and a programming language.

That has to start when kids are young. And to be clear, this isn't necessarily to make every kid a computer scientist. It's the exact same thing as making every kid literate. Literacy is essentially opening up a second pathway of information transmission (spoken word being the first way). Learning to program is opening up a second major path of information manipulation to do work, for all people.

There is not a thing in the world I feel more strongly about that this. I spent some time in my early career working on developing a programming language for kids called Scratch. I would happily do it again. I hope we see serious money behind it one day. It will change the world for the better.

I don't know if you can teach kids actual programming that early, maybe the concepts of programming. In any event I agree, and I'd prefer to see shop class come back, but focused on computer maintenance instead of wood.

[Ninepenny]

I found the pilot who destroyed the Boeing back in July.

http://i.imgur.com/huHzOSZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mcfhVgj.jpg

His name is Vladislav Voloshin.

[Skroe]

Conspiracy theories are not welcome on this forum.

And considering that it's incredibly outlandish to claim that Australia, Malaysia and the Netherlands would all conspire with the US/EU to cover up the murder of their own citizens, this qualifies as such.

And frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself and embarrassed for even suggesting it.

[Kellhound]

I found the pilot who destroyed the Boeing back in July.

http://i.imgur.com/huHzOSZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mcfhVgj.jpg

His name is Vladislav Voloshin.

The aircraft was NOT shot down by a Su-25, PERIOD! The damage was TOTALLY wrong for ANY air to air ordnance that plane carries.

[Haven]

Well if we go by "national interests" only, then making sure Russia stays weak and whipped is in the best interest of EU and US.

US, yes. EU, no. Mostly because there's no such thing as national interests of EU. Different countries within EU have different national interests, as I already mentioned. Some countries would benefit much more from contracts with Russia than others.

While the crimean grab was "peacefull" however peacefull robbery can be but the shit in easter Ukraine is not.
To call robbery peacefull is an euphemism Mr Hitchens should be ashamed for making.

Damn Russians, robbing Crimea by investing billions into it! While prosperous European Ukrainians are buying candles and matches...

[Kellhound]

US, yes. EU, no. Mostly because there's no such thing as national interests of EU. Different countries within EU have different national interests, as I already mentioned. Some countries would benefit much more from contracts with Russia than others.

Damn Russians, robbing Crimea by investing billions into it! While prosperous European Ukrainians are buying candles and matches...

A weak Russia is in everyone but Russia's best interest.

[Deleted]

A weak Russia is in everyone but Russia's best interest.

a true democratic Russia is in everyone interest, a weak (humiliated) authoritarian Russia will have its mind on a comeback/revenge.

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Damn Russians, robbing Crimea by investing billions into it! While prosperous European Ukrainians are buying candles and matches...

So if German robbing Kaliningrad from Russia and investing more money then Russia did in Kaliningrad, and point out about how superior German standard of living is compare to Russia....... its fair according to you?

[Charge me Doctor]

I'd really love to see the benchmark of a Baikal CPU (or any Russian tech firm's) against Intel. Because this would be today's "bronze" versus steel.

Quickly jumping in this thread avoiding all the bullshit, bile, hate and shit thrown between two camps who just refuse to listen to each other and entitled to their own opinion.

Russian CPUs are mainly used in military because they don't work on x86 architecture. So, apples to oranges. The main advantage of Russian CPUs over Intel or AMD ones that they don't use x86 architecture (tho, they are secure because they need completely different compilator to work with), they are made in Russia (Taiwan actually, but shhh) and they are fault-tolerant. They are just not made for civilian purposes, instead, they are made for military.

So, in short, Russian CPUs for Russian military reduces chances of this happening significantly.

[Kellhound]

a true democratic Russia is in everyone interest, a weak (humiliated) authoritarian Russia will have its mind on a comeback/revenge.

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So if German robbing Kaliningrad from Russia and investing more money then Russia did in Kaliningrad, and point out about how superior German standard of living is compare to Russia....... its fair according to you?

A democratic Russia is less likely than self-flying bovines.

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Quickly jumping in this thread avoiding all the bullshit, bile, hate and shit thrown between two camps who just refuse to listen to each other and entitled to their own opinion.

Russian CPUs are mainly used in military because they don't work on x86 architecture. So, apples to oranges. The main advantage of Russian CPUs over Intel or AMD ones that they don't use x86 architecture (tho, they are secure because they need completely different compilator to work with), they are made in Russia (Taiwan actually, but shhh) and they are fault-tolerant. They are just not made for civilian purposes, instead, they are made for military.

Given the overall quality of Russian military electronics compared to Western military electronics, thats still not saying much....

[Charge me Doctor]

Given the overall quality of Russian military electronics compared to Western military electronics, thats still not saying much....

Way to go, speaking about stuff you don't know, without backing that up with any data.

Again, quality (especially for military purpose) is a set of characteristics that give them the ability to meet the needs, Russian and "Western" (comparing a country to a "west" of it (i suppose?) is quite redundant, don't you think? Spending of USA alone on military beats whole worlds spending on military) needs for military can be very different (and they are, actually), and you, as a person who never actually saw any piece of hardware made for modern Russian military, and i, as a person who never actually saw any piece of hardware made for modern USA military, shouldn't be speaking about "comparing" stuff that we never ever used or going to use.

If you compare amount of transistors in CPU and speak about "quality" you are doing it wrong. Or right. Depends on what actual needs is, if your CPU should work fail-safe in -40*C and 120*C environment and doesn't really care about processing speed, it's one thing, another thing is using CPUs for servers with controlled temperature and pulling maximum amount of it. You can't compare those. It's just silly

[Darkis]

A democratic Russia is less likely than self-flying bovines.

I adore Americans, who think that US is a democracy.

[Shalcker]

Yeesh, and decades in a sector with compounding Moore's law effects...

Actually Moore's law already stopped working; Intel just adds cores having hit the wall on speeds that can be obtained in consumer electronics without insane cooling.

All this tells me is that it's another Hegelian "end of history": To be competitive you need computers and people who know how to work them productively.

Which we do and even Skroe admits it.

To acquire computers you must trade with the US, be it directly or indirectly, and you must train people in programming.

This is actually false; there are competing architectures, and given time and funding (and the fact that Intel has hit wall) things like Elbrus can eventually catch up.

And it's not like giant speed is huge advantage. Mostly those speeds allow less capable programmers to "solve" atrocious coding skills by using more cores/more memory; most actually important tasks can be done reasonably fast on decades-old processors.

To train people in programming, you have to teach them English which means you are necessarily giving people the skills to leave your country and seek a better deal in the West, because the West can leverage more resources because it is richer...because it invented computing.

There are many reasons why people might prefer their own country rather then go abroad; people learned programming in USSR too, it's not that hard.

And the result is the Brain Drain from other countries and to the US.

Did you actually check how numbers look lately? You might be surprised.

Rejection of American values is also a rejection of the modern computing knowledge one needs to grow wealth.

Haha, American propaganda is funny.

[dickbutt]

Actually Moore's law already stopped working; Intel just adds cores having hit the wall on speeds that can be obtained in consumer electronics without insane cooling.

Which we do and even Skroe admits it.

This is actually false; there are competing architectures, and given time and funding (and the fact that Intel has hit wall) things like Elbrus can eventually catch up.

And it's not like giant speed is huge advantage. Mostly those speeds allow less capable programmers to "solve" atrocious coding skills by using more cores/more memory; most actually important tasks can be done reasonably fast on decades-old processors.

There are many reasons why people might prefer their own country rather then go abroad; people learned programming in USSR too, it's not that hard.

Did you actually check how numbers look lately? You might be surprised.

Haha, American propaganda is funny.

i stoped reading when you said intel hit a brick wall. they are working on their lower nanometer lithography right now. it will be out soon (in fact it's already out in their extreme edition).

[Charge me Doctor]

This is actually false; there are competing architectures, and given time and funding (and the fact that Intel has hit wall) things like Elbrus can eventually catch up.

And it's not like giant speed is huge advantage. Mostly those speeds allow less capable programmers to "solve" atrocious coding skills by using more cores/more memory; most actually important tasks can be done reasonably fast on decades-old processors.

Isn't the leader on making scanners to make high-end processors - Netherlands? I mean, in the sense of "you need to buy stuff from USA to make CPUs for your demands" it's not right.

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i stoped reading when you said intel hit a brick wall. they are working on their lower nanometer lithography right now. it will be out soon (in fact it's already out in their extreme edition).

You mean 14nm ones? How well they resist radiation (actually, not really that big of an issue since 65nm lithography and smaller provides protection against at least 1mil rad)? Or at what temperatures they will fry down/freeze? Do they make them in sintered body (iirc, plastic body doesn't work well in high humidity)? It's too early to say anything about their new lithography. It's all fun and games when you put one in your PC and control environment around it so it won't malfunction, but military is kinda different case.

Anyways, for Russian CPU production to catch up with USA ones who has more than 50 years of experience in this field? Not going to happen that fast, especially with huge difference in military budget

[Deleted]

Anyways, for Russian CPU production to catch up with USA ones who has more than 50 years of experience in this field? Not going to happen that fast, especially with huge difference in military budget

Not going to happen at all, there is a reason why folks like Elon Musk emigrate to US and why the much hyped Skulkovo is just as real and useful as say Klipper.

I know from personal experience of well-educated Russians leaving their country, not happy about it but they say there is no purpose or benefit from staying there while they could both make two times more and enjoy, for example European health care system (just as your Top 200 oligarchs do, really at least 200-300 more people should be added to sanctions,considering their and their kids lives are built around such access).

I adore Americans, who think that US is a democracy.

Yeah I guess it sucks to live in a country where President doesnt have all the executive power in his hands and he has to put up with institutions,preventing from his abusing it.

[Deleted]

I adore Americans, who think that US is a democracy.

I adore people who think representative democracys are no democracys.

[Darkis]

I adore people who think representative democracys are no democracys.

Who said anything about representative democracy?

[Charge me Doctor]

Not going to happen at all, there is a reason why folks like Elon Musk emigrate to US and why the much hyped Skulkovo is just as real and useful as say Klipper.

Actually, it's going to happen eventually, because with all available technology it is easier to catch up (you don't have to work on everything from the scratch like Silicon Valley did). You mean Skolkovo? I guess some people felt same way about Silicon Valley, but having a place like that is definitely better than not having one.

It all depends on what is the goal of it and how invested in this Russia wants to be. Making commercial CPU from a scratch? Fuck no, it's never going to pay off with titans like Intel and AMD around, unless some technological breakthrough happens and production+development of masks for ~32nm chips won't cost more than 10mil$

Making them for military purpose? Well, it all depends on how much money government is going to fuel into that, because there will be zero profit from it (well, except that we won't need to buy stuff like this for half of a million dollars, we will be able to do them ourselves), its all about spending money on a stuff we can't currently afford, so it's not going to happen now, or in next 20 years, but steps towards this goal is going to be taken, and since it's a trodden path, it's easier than making everything from a scratch.

Without stuff like China did, this financially disadvantageous field is very hard to cover.

[Deleted]

Who said anything about representative democracy?

Yes and now where did you provide evidence that the US is no democracy?

Do you even think democracy is good?

[Cybran]

Yes and now where did you provide evidence that the US is no democracy?

Jeb Bush will be the next president of America. That is evidence enough.