Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill 1.1

[Bakis]

They are just butthurt, because they jumped on the sinking euro ship.

You would not be upset if a country put strain on your country simply for being fraudulent regardering its economy?

[Deleted]

You would not be upset if a country put strain on your country simply for being fraudulent regardering its economy?

That's all that's behind Greece's crisis?

[Bakis]

That's all that's behind Greece's crisis?

Not at all but major enough to be a reason for resentment towards Greece especially given the later events.
After all the lithuanians are in Cybers mind simple minded people that are just butthurt

[vetinari]

You would not be upset if a country put strain on your country simply for being fraudulent regardering its economy?

LOL

Yeah, the euro zone problems are totally Greece's fault and not that the euro was the baby of European politicians and bureaucrats that wanted to form a United States of Europe by stealth, a baby that should have been aborted. We were warned about what would happen more than 20 years ago, by economists on both the left and the right.

[Deleted]

Not at all but major enough to be a reason for resentment towards Greece especially given the later events.
After all the lithuanians are in Cybers mind simple minded people that are just butthurt

Lithuania talking rough to Greece simply does not make sense.
It's immature behaviour.

[Bakis]

LOL

Yeah, the euro zone problems are totally Greece's fault and not that the euro was the baby of European politicians and bureaucrats that wanted to form a United States of Europe by stealth, a baby that should have been aborted. We were warned about what would happen more than 20 years ago, by economists on both the left and the right.

That's not what I wrote. I wrote about the part Greece played itself and the article quoted is specifically about the threats of not honoring made deals that might very well be a reality depending on the election.

[vetinari]

That's not what I wrote. I wrote about the part Greece played itself and the article quoted is specifically about the threats of not honoring made deals that might very well be a reality depending on the election.

And my point is that the being angry at the Greeks is fairly pointless, especially since the country is in worse straights than in the goddamned great depression. 25% unemployment, 60% youth unemployment, deflation, their youth basically all trying to emigrate, starvation and massive suicide rates.

If the Greeks finally defaulted and blew apart the euro, it would be a good thing for Europe.

Contracts that should never have been made should not be honored, its as simple as that.

[Deleted]

LOL

Yeah, the euro zone problems are totally Greece's fault and not that the euro was the baby of European politicians and bureaucrats that wanted to form a United States of Europe by stealth, a baby that should have been aborted. We were warned about what would happen more than 20 years ago, by economists on both the left and the right.

Greece does have a hand in the crisis. Looking at other countries such as Ireland or Italy whom have also had huge financial problems, they've recovered te a t, whereas Greece hasn't shapen up much... yes, the euro should've been handled way better but solely putting the blame on the euro is just fucking stupid.

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Contracts that should never have been made should not be honored, its as simple as that.

Wow, you must suck to work with if you decide not to honor contracts just because you feel that you signed a bad deal in hindsight.

[vetinari]

Greece does have a hand in the crisis. Looking at other countries such as Ireland or Italy whom have also had huge financial problems, they've recovered te a t, whereas Greece hasn't shapen up much... yes, the euro should've been handled way better but solely putting the blame on the euro is just fucking stupid.

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Wow, you must suck to work with if you decide not to honor contracts just because you feel that you signed a bad deal in hindsight.

Let me guess, you are in favor of austerity, right?

[Shalcker]

Greece does have a hand in the crisis. Looking at other countries such as Ireland or Italy whom have also had huge financial problems, they've recovered te a t, whereas Greece hasn't shapen up much...

It can be argued that they were not allowed to shape as they needed, and instead were presented with plan that bled them dry for benefit of their lenders and didn't produce any substantial results other then making situation worse for Greeks.

Clearly, in any democratic country such situation cannot stand for long.

Wow, you must suck to work with if you decide not to honor contracts just because you feel that you signed a bad deal in hindsight.

When dealing with sovereign entities default is always a risk you should keep in mind.

[Deleted]

Looks like the russian separatist puppets are losing the war. Guess it's a matter of time before Russia sends in a full invasion force to support their failed proxy warriors.

[Shalcker]

Looks like the russian separatist puppets are losing the war. Guess it's a matter of time before Russia sends in a full invasion force to support their failed proxy warriors.

Where did you read it?

So far all Russian sources say "substantial gains for rebels".

[Deleted]

Where did you read it?

So far all Russian sources say "substantial gains for rebels".

And we all know how reliable is the Russian media. Hahaha.

[Deleted]

And Kiev claims gains on their side against official russian troops.

Obviously nothing to back it up.


It really is a messy business down there.
How can people support any of the two sides at this stage is beyond me.

[Marcellus1986]

Where did you read it?

So far all Russian sources say "substantial gains for rebels".

Of course they do, since it wouldn't be proper for the propaganda machine Putin has been rolling out for the past year or so to miss a beat.

[Deleted]

And we all know how reliable is the Russian media. Hahaha.

Compared to what?
No media on Ukraine h's been fair and impartial.

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Of course they do, since it wouldn't be proper for the propaganda machine Putin has been rolling out for the past year or so to miss a beat.

Doesn't surprise me.
It doesn't surprise me how the other side also claims victory.

[Marcellus1986]

In other news:

http://www.ibtimes.com/east-ukraine-...onetsk-1788520

Was certain I hadn't seen this article/video linked anywhere.

[Deleted]

Let me guess, you are in favor of austerity, right?

Not the current austerity measures, I feel that the current measures reduces the buypower of people which in turn slows down growth.

[Deleted]

It can be argued that they were not allowed to shape as they needed, and instead were presented with plan that bled them dry for benefit of their lenders and didn't produce any substantial results other then making situation worse for Greeks.

Clearly, in any democratic country such situation cannot stand for long.

You must be pretty ignorant on the issue, to say that the lenders are benefiting...... How can a sapient being claim that writing some €120bn off of Greece's sovereign debt is bleeding Greece dry, AND serves the lenders?! are we even on the same planet...

Not to mention the further ~€240bn loans at friendly, to say the least, financial terms...

Greece's economy has not been self-sufficient and in need of restructuring, and that is evident to any nut with half a brain. Any situation would have been bad for Greeks, but saying that €120bn (50% of GDP) FREE+ critical and vast €240bn loans is bad for Greeks indicates you are painfully stupid to say the least.

[Cybran]

saying that €120bn (50% of GDP) FREE+ critical and vast €240bn loans is bad for Greeks indicates you are painfully stupid to say the least.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...led-and-growth

As economists, we note that the historical evidence demonstrates the futility and dangers of imposing unsustainable debt and repayment conditions on debtor countries; the negative impact of austerity policies on weakening economies; and the particularly severe effects that flow on to the poorest households.

We therefore urge the troika (EU, European Centra Bank and IMF) to negotiate in good faith with the Greek government so that there is a cancellation of a large part of the debt and new terms of payment which support the rebuilding of a sustainable economy. This settlement should mark the beginning of a new EU-wide policy framework favouring pro-growth rather than deflationary policies (Report, 14 January).

We urge the Greek government to abandon the austerity programme that is crushing economic activity and adopt a more expansive fiscal policy setting, targeting immediate relief from poverty and stimulating further domestic demand; to launch a fully independent investigation into the historic and systemic failure of the Greek public financial management processes (including any evidence of corruption) that led to the accumulation of debt, the disguising of the size and nature of the debt and the inefficient/ineffective use of public funds; and to consider the establishment of a judicial body or alternative mechanism that is independent of government and charged with a future responsibility of investigating corruption from the highest to lowest levels of government.

We urge other national governments to exercise their votes within official sector finance agencies and to pursue other diplomatic activities that will support a cancellation of a large part of the Greek sovereign debt and new terms of payment for the rebuilding of a sustainable Greek national economy.
Malcolm Sawyer Emeritus prof, University of Leeds
Danny Lang Associate prof, University of Paris
Prof Yu Bin Professor and deputy director, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences
Prof Ozlem Onaran University of Greenwich
Prof Mario Seccareccia University of Ottawa
Hugo Radice Life fellow, University of Leeds
John Weeks Professor emeritus, Soas, University of London
Prof Howard Stein University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
Anitra Nelson Associate professor, RMIT University, Melbourne
Prof George Irvin University of London, Soas
Dr John Simister Manchester Metropolitan University
Mogens Ove Madsen Associate professor, Aalborg University
Wang Zhongbao Associate professor, editorial director, World Review of Political Economy
Dr Susan Pashkoff Economist
Andrea Fumagalli University of Pavia
Pat Devine University of Manchester
Professor Ray Kinsella University College Dublin
Alan Freeman Co-director, Geopolitical Economy Research and Education Trust
Eugénia Pires Economist, member, Portuguese Citizens Debt Audit
Dr Jo Michell University of the West of England, Bristol
Michael Burke Economist, Socialist Economic Bulletin
Paul Hudson Formerly Universität Wissemburg-Halle
Dr Alan B Cibils Universidad Nacional de General Sarmiento, Buenos Aires, Argentina
Guglielmo Forges Davanzati Associate prof, University of Salento
Prof Sergio Rossi University of Fribourg
Faruk Ulgen Associate prof, University of Grenoble
Tim Delap Positive Money
Eleni Paliginis Middlesex University
Grazia Ietto-Gillies Emeritus professor, London South Bank University
Professor Radhika Desai University of Manitoba
Michael Roberts Economist, ‘The next recession’
Michael Taft Unite the Union, Ireland region
Dr Andy Denis City University London
Peter Kenyon Chartist
Professor Emeritus Geoffrey Colin Harcourt UNSW Business School

The austerity conditions attached to those loans are destroying their economy. Are you saying that you know better than a large number of economists around the world?