Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill 1.1

[Deleted]

State that lasted half a year?

About 4 years, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraini...e%27s_Republic

[Thunderball]

The war is on Donbass soil. Ukraine proper is intact.

You mean proper Poland? Why dont you let it go if it's improper for your perfect state?

[Thunderball]

Sure, it has nothing at all to do with Russia, nothing at all....

Hilarious

Has nothing to do with Russian state, yes. And it's in it's best interest to stop it asap.

[Cynep]

You mean proper Poland? Why dont you let it go if it's improper for your perfect state?

1. I don't call RU Mongolia, why do you call Ukraine Poland? It's a different country.

2. I live in Donbass, I can't let it go, I'm inside. Donbass and Crimea aren't historically Ukrainian lands, so the term I used is correct.

[BreathTaker]

About 4 years, actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraini...e%27s_Republic

Well his link showed some other entity which lasted half a year.
Yet the value of both is equally close to zero. You know in those times if someon on Kamchatka declared independance, it'd take a looong time just to cross the country and fix it.
As for UA - it's closer but it's in the middle of multiple conflicts. It does not matter just like those lands that were ocupied by Hitler before we took them back, even though some of them were occupied for several years

[Thunderball]

Which is why they want their self-declared independent countries to be annexed by Russia.

I can go with protecting themselves and their freedom, but that they are Ukrainian patriots? Tell those rebels that they are Ukrainian patriots and they will surely beat you up.

I'm not even sure anyone in their right mind can be an Ukrainian patriot after two Maidans and especially if you speak Russian and have relatives in Russia.

[Deleted]

Ukrainian State yo. Also, Kievan Rus' was a state of Ruthenians (modern Ukrainians and Belarussians), not Muscovites. Muscovy is far younger.

Ruthenians? Ruthenes? You mean Rusyns, right, that ethnic group that's almost forbidden to exist in Ukraine?

[Puupi]

Well his link showed some other entity which lasted half a year.
Yet the value of both is equally close to zero. You know in those times if someon on Kamchatka declared independance, it'd take a looong time just to cross the country and fix it.
As for UA - it's closer but it's in the middle of multiple conflicts. It does not matter just like those lands that were ocupied by Hitler before we took them back, even though some of them were occupied for several years

Well quite a few countries declared independent those times.

[Deleted]

But what defines a country?
Is it the name you give to some dirt and water, or is it about the people? I think it's the latter.

What does that have to do with anything? If some guys say they say they want to create their own nation what does that have to do with the definition of a country?

They're not Ukrainian patriots if they want to break away and get annexed by Russia.

So their "defending the country" consists of killing and bombing citizens of their own country.
Great job, protecting the country by destroying it!

Great job, I never said I support the killing of civilians.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not even sure anyone in their right mind can be an Ukrainian patriot after two Maidans and especially if you speak Russian and have relatives in Russia.

Well, western Ukrainians do seem to have it easy calling themselves Ukrainian patriots. Besides, being a patriot is about supporting your country, not necessarily supporting the regime of the country.

[Cynep]

Ruthenians? Ruthenes? You mean Rusyns, right, that ethnic group that's almost forbidden to exist in Ukraine?

In late XIX - early XX centuries some then-Ruthenian thinkers started promoting a new name for their nation because they didn't like that Muscovites stole their old name. They chose the word "Ukraine". Some Ruthenians didn't accept name change and still call themselves like 100 years ago. "Rusyn" is how "Ruthenian" sounds in Ukrainian language, it's the same word; I'm using English form because this is English-language forum.

[Thunderball]

1. I don't call RU Mongolia, why do you call Ukraine Poland? It's a different country.

2. I live in Donbass, I can't let it go, I'm inside. Donbass and Crimea aren't historically Ukrainian lands, so the term I used is correct.

1. I call it Poland because those lands that you call proper Ukraine are mostly historically polish. And preceding your question, no, you dont create an ethnicity defining it by hatred towards Russia. It doesnt work that way.
2. There are no historically Ukrainian lands. Ukraine is created by Soviet leadership as a bunch of areas (most of those were recently attached to Russian Empire and Soviet Russia later) with one goal - to be governed from Kiev.

[Cynep]

I'm not even sure anyone in their right mind can be an Ukrainian patriot after two Maidans and especially if you speak Russian and have relatives in Russia.

I'll tell you more; I even lived and worked in Russia for several years. I returned because I didn't like totalitarian mentality there; in Ukraine people are much more open-minded, even in Donbass.

[Deleted]

In late XIX - early XX centuries some then-Ruthenian thinkers started promoting a new name for their nation because they didn't like that Muscovites stole their old name. They chose the word "Ukraine". Some Ruthenians didn't accept name change and still call themselves like 100 years ago. "Rusyn" is how "Ruthenian" sounds in Ukrainian language, it's the same word; I'm using English form because this is English-language forum.

Rusyn is English form. Rusyns aren't Ukrainians that forgot to rename themselves. I know some, you know, because they're not afraid of being Rusyns in my country.

[Cynep]

-snip-

This is propaganda of Russian imperialism, historic facts state otherwise. Facts that cannot be changed or disputed. Educate yourself.

[BreathTaker]

Well quite a few countries declared independent those times.

Yes but are you implying that 6 month or even 4 years was enough to found something that can now be called "Ukrainian etnicity"?
"Ukrainian etnicity" if we assume such things exists, surelly does not have those 'states' as their base. Than what does?
Russians are Russians, even if the territory they live in has a bi-colored flag and if their ancestors are mixed with way more Poland representatives than other Russians.
That's my point of view, i'm no doctor of Ethnology or something

[Thunderball]

Well, western Ukrainians do seem to have it easy calling themselves Ukrainian patriots. Besides, being a patriot is about supporting your country, not necessarily supporting the regime of the country.

Well, ethnic poles have a thing against russians historically (and it's, as I've stated earlier, kind of justified). But the thing is - ethnic russians are not only in Russia, they are very significant ethnos in their own country aswell. And if they want to keep their country and make it peaceful they have to deal with it. That's the only problem in here, it doesnt have anything to do with regime, other than the fact that ALL pro-eastern ukrainian politics are labbeled criminals and traitor. Eastern Ukraine doesnt have anyone who would support their interests.

[BreathTaker]

I'll tell you more; I even lived and worked in Russia for several years. I returned because I didn't like totalitarian mentality there; in Ukraine people are much more open-minded, even in Donbass.

I guess you lived in a big city in Russia? Because in small vilage near Kostroma (just some random place i visited last week) it's like in UA - vilage is a vilage, even if it has a President

[Thunderball]

This is propaganda of Russian imperialism, historic facts state otherwise. Facts that cannot be changed or disputed. Educate yourself.

Yeah, I've read your historic facts about prehistoric proto-ukranians. Pretty funny read.

[Puupi]

Rusyn is English form. Rusyns aren't Ukrainians that forgot to rename themselves. I know some, you know, because they're not afraid of being Rusyns in my country.

It's rather ironic and funny that in Finnish the derogatory word for Russians is "ryssä", which is basically exactly what Russians call themselves. The official word for Russia is "Venäjä" and Russian "venäläinen".

[Cynep]

Rusyn is English form. Rusyns aren't Ukrainians that forgot to rename themselves. I know some, you know, because they're not afraid of being Rusyns in my country.

They didn't forget, they refused to change their name. Yes, the English word "Ruthenian" is used for historic purposes, like I did; for modern Ruthenians a direct loanword "Rusyn" is used. This is still exactly the same word in Ukrainian language, different forms are used in English.