The WoW'ification of America - School cancels honors nights for being too "exclusive"

[Deleted]

Giving a trophy has nothing to do with qualifications. You got an A, or a degree, or whatever the goal was. Suggesting that you wouldn't have even tried without the promise of some trophy on top of that makes me sad in the face.

I stated I'd have settled for great, simply because it's better than average and about 20-25 hours less work a week.

I wouldn't have competed with the curve simply for my own need to prove myself to myself, I'm aware of my limitations and abilities. But there were tangible benefits, so it made it worthwhile to sacrifice a ridiculous amount of my time.

[Hotmail]

A good bit of the point behind of this kind of thing is to promote competition, which (in theory) results in higher performance. In practice, the outcome can be zero sum or even detrimental, depending on the character and upbringing of the students.

Healthy competition is just not something everybody is able to understand or abide by, unfortunately. Everyonce in a while you'll hear a story about narcissistic parents trying to neuter any environment where their child *might* be perceived as "inferior".

[Kaleredar]

Not getting the reward despite working as hard as you can.

Negative punishment.

"Being punished by not getting an award" is a pretty victimized way of looking at others getting awards for doing better than you did.

[Deleted]

Not getting the reward despite working as hard as you can.

Negative punishment.

People aren't made equal...deal with it.

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"Being punished by not getting an award" is a pretty victimized way of looking at others getting awards for doing better than you did.

Pretty much.

[Deleted]

Not getting the reward despite working as hard as you can.

Negative punishment.

Did you read my description?

Students got recognized for a variety of factors, from personal improvement, exemplary improvements, displaying a good character etc.

[Elegiac]

"Being punished by not getting an award" is a pretty victimized way of looking at others getting awards for doing better than you did.

Taking away a positive stimulus (i.e. the promise of reward) is by definition negative punishment.

So psychologically it could be argued that rewards like that are actually counterproductive to the desired goal of getting everyone to excel.

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People aren't made equal...deal with it.

I am. By recommending solutions that are not in fact based off pop psychology or a priori reasoning.

[Deleted]

Taking away a positive stimulus (i.e. the promise of reward) is by definition negative punishment.

So psychologically it could be argued that rewards like that are actually counterproductive to the desired goal of getting everyone to excel.

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I am. By recommending solutions that are not in fact based off pop psychology or a priori reasoning.

It could be argued, quite poorly.

Positive reinforcement is a key method of promoting continued excellence.

You threw out your awards in protest?

[Argarock]

Think this is relevant

Yeah! this video and especially the "violent people think very highly of themselves!" -line was the first thing that came to mind while reading the OP

[Elegiac]

It could be argued, quite poorly.

Positive reinforcement is a key method of promoting continued excellence.

Of which encouraging competition is not, in fact, a necessarily good example.

You threw out your awards in protest?

No, I just rarely attended any award ceremonies even if I was receiving them.

[Kaleredar]

Taking away a positive stimulus (i.e. the promise of reward) is by definition negative punishment.

They aren't taking away a positive stimulus because it isn't naturally "given" to all the students only to have a group of them deprived of it.

By your logic, giving a dog a treat when they sit on command only serves to make every second of the day in which you aren't giving him a treat "negative punishment."

[Deleted]

Taking away a positive stimulus (i.e. the promise of reward) is by definition negative punishment.

So psychologically it could be argued that rewards like that are actually counterproductive to the desired goal of getting everyone to excel.

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I am. By recommending solutions that are not in fact based off pop psychology or a priori reasoning.

As a person who has seen others surpass me on almost every level I never had issues with others getting some special attention as long as these people don't act like asshats about it.

Someone who puts in extra effort deserves to be awarded more, it's simple as that. And if you happen to be born lucky that you good at what you do with no effort then good for you.

[Elegiac]

They aren't taking away a positive stimulus because it isn't naturally "given" to the student only to have a group of them deprived of it.

By your logic, giving a dog a treat when they sit on command only serves to make every second of the day in which you aren't giving him a treat "negative punishment."

It would go some way towards explaining why random reinforcement tends to be the most effective when cultivating specific behaviors.

And no, my entire point that reducing academic achievement to a binary state of conditioning is self-defeating.

[Deleted]

Well we should be trying to make everyone a winner instead of just further honoring those who would already be winners...

This comment is pretty pointless, the year is over so there is nothing to be done. The school and the students themselves had all year to make them all/themselves "winners". I don't see why you can't strive to make as many good and successful students while still honoring those with some extra skill/effort.

[Wildtree]

For inventing the word Wow-ification alone you should be banned from receiving any award for 10 years regardless.

Otherwise, the award/trophy hype should really be stopped.
Back to the roots..... Awards for sports competitions, and only 1, 2, 3 place receive a prize.

[Elegiac]

This comment is pretty pointless, the year is over so there is nothing to be done. The school and the students themselves had all year to make them all/themselves "winners". I don't see why you can't strive to make as many good and successful students while still honoring those with some extra skill/effort.

Because it takes attention away from the pursuit of excellence itself.

You're essentially trying to apply the principles of educating a dog to educating a human.

[Kaleredar]

It would go some way towards explaining why random reinforcement tends to be the most effective when cultivating specific behaviors.

That's not really addressing what I said.

And no, my entire point that reducing academic achievement to a binary state of conditioning is self-defeating.

...except it very literally isn't pass/fail. Maybe if the system existed in which students that got 95% and up got an award, and that was the only way in which they could learn of what their grade was, and no one else was ever told what grade they got and only knew that it was below the threshold, then that would be the case. But frankly, it isn't. You KNOW what grade you get. Some students get something saying "gee that grade is really neat." That someone naturally assumes that "all other grades are therefore inferior and you suck" would speak to deep psychological problems that need addressing.

[Elegiac]

...except it very literally isn't pass/fail. Maybe if the system existed in which students that got 95% and up got an award, and that was the only way in which they could learn of what their grade was, and everyone else was never told what grade they got and only knew that it was below the threshold, then that would be the case. But frankly, it isn't. You KNOW what grade you get. Some students get something saying "gee that grade is really neat." That someone naturally assumes that "all other grades are therefore inferior and you suck" would speak to deep psychological problems that need addressing.

We're talking about awards here, not grades.

[Kaleredar]

We're talking about awards here, not grades.

Well the funny thing is, awards in the education system are usually based on grades. They don't exist as separate entities. The awards are usually "this person got this grade."

[Elegiac]

Well the funny thing is, awards are usually based on grades. They don't exist as separate entities.

And the devil is in the distinction.

[Kaleredar]

And the devil is in the distinction.

There isn't any palpable distinction, because people usually get awards for their grades.