[6.0] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Relapses]

Dude's using the 50% Chakra buff and editing his log before it's uploaded. That's the only explanation I can think.

...it's not impossible. He doesn't have a level 100 talent selected. You could keep the Chakra buff if you had it on you before they changed the exploit used to get it. (And level to 100 with it.) As long as you never change a talent (or learn a new one, which is why this guy isn't using a level 100), it'll never drop off. Seeing as a 50% DPS buff is more powerful than any level 100 talent, it's an easy choice. This guy is just editing the buff out of the log so it appears he's legit.

People suck.

[Ilir]

Oh, yeah. I understand now why his SWP and VT usage was so high. Yeah, he's abusin the chakra bug.

But I still have ~the same damage as he does with MB etc... gonna check again tonight. (I don't have any holy offspec and I changed talents several times and I never used the chakra bug).

[Deleted]

So I was doing some sims for my weapon enchant. Did them for Warsong, Bleeding Hollow and Shattered Hand, for Patchwerk/Hectic Addcleave and Heavy Movement. The cheap one (shattered hand) came out on top each time... Is that right?

[Kulle]

Shattered Hand enchant's initial hit (not the dot) can be partially blocked by raid bosses, which is not simulated in simcraft, which in turn inflates the enchant's value. It's still pretty good for a cheap enchant though.

edit: I think you have to be standing in front of the target when the enchantment procs for it to have a chance to be partially blocked.

[Deleted]

Shattered Hand enchant's initial hit (not the dot) can be partially blocked by raid bosses, which is not simulated in simcraft, which in turn inflates the enchant's value. It's still pretty good for a cheap enchant though.

edit: I think you have to be standing in front of the target when the enchantment procs for it to have a chance to be partially blocked.

Thanks, looked at logs and had 7% misses on Ko'Ragh. Only 1% on Imperator though.

[Yvaelle]

Thanks, looked at logs and had 7% misses on Ko'Ragh. Only 1% on Imperator though.

Attacking from the front versus the back maybe!

[Torched]

How much haste should I be aiming for unbuffed before haste becomes the worst stat?

[draykorinee]

Just did an lfr as shadow, can I ask, I enjoy dotweaving but this other chap was outdpsing me by a good 25%, ilvl aside (his was much higher) his useage of spells was completly different. His was MB 23%, insanity 18%, mindspike 9% whereas mine was mind blast 29%, mindspike 17% insanity 13% he also had double my vampire/S:P useage. The way I figured it, you get to 5 orbs and start dot weaving then back up to 5, did i get something wrong?

[Dierdre]

How much haste should I be aiming for unbuffed before haste becomes the worst stat?

That depends on several factors. You'd need currently unattainable levels of haste for it to be worse than versatility though.

[Deleted]

How much dps(%) does the cheapass bleed enchant give? what about the expensive ones?

I did about 18,700 on kargath heroic no-dotweaving and without prepots at 644, some gcds wasted due to range/pw:s, thought I woulda done better, even if it was just an off-spec.

[Dierdre]

How much dps(%) does the cheapass bleed enchant give? what about the expensive ones?

Discussed here.

[Zlebar]

How much dps(%) does the cheapass bleed enchant give? what about the expensive ones?

I did about 18,700 on kargath heroic no-dotweaving and without prepots at 644, some gcds wasted due to range/pw:s, thought I woulda done better, even if it was just an off-spec.

I did 18,463 at 635 ilvl with CoP and Dotweaving with prepots on heroic(6m 45sec fight). I also wasted quite a few gcds using pw:s/dodging things/range of other players. I think dotweaving makes a rather large difference in damage. Starting at 4 shadow orbs instead of 5 also seemed to net me approx 300-400 dps while practicing on the dummies. Even if there is a small amount of downtime .5-.8 seconds between your first insanity(for some reason that small downtime seems really clunky but nets a dps increase over going with a more fluid 5 orbs) and your mindblast that gives you your second set of 3 orbs for the second DP and following insanity.

[Forsay]

Don't you guys feel like our cleave dps is way too weak atm? Weaker than any cleave ability/spell in the game. I wouldn't mind if mastery (or multistrike/ versatility?) also let our dots to deal some small % of their damage to nearby targets. It would help on cleave fights without affecting multidot dps, unless targets are in melee range of each other.

[Dierdre]

I think dotweaving makes a rather large difference in damage.

It makes a difference (depending on your stats), but not a large difference.

[Deleted]

Tried spending an hour or so comparing dot weaving and 0brain CoP.

Dot weaving at 644 dummies(no weap enchant) did 12,400-12,600 while 0 brain rotation did 11,800-12k with surge of darkness after 8 mins.

Considering dot weaving doesn't work in execute phase and surge of darkness works better on it the difference is prolly like 2-3% at best, with a rotation that is impossible to mess up vs something that's really easy to mess up.

[Dierdre]

Tried spending an hour or so comparing dot weaving and 0brain CoP.

Dot weaving at 644 dummies(no weap enchant) did 12,400-12,600 while 0 brain rotation did 11,800-12k with surge of darkness after 8 mins.

Considering dot weaving doesn't work in execute phase and surge of darkness works better on it the difference is prolly like 2-3% at best, with a rotation that is impossible to mess up vs something that's really easy to mess up.

It's even less if you're not using SoD (SoD gets extra procs from dotweaving's VT) and then even less if you have high amounts of mastery. The net increase provided over a dotweaving cycle when not using SoD is the damage done by SW:P and VT using the GCDs that you would have spent on two Mind Spikes, i.e.:

Δ = (SW:P + VT) - 2MSp

If you have high amounts of mastery, 2MSp can be greater than (SW:P +VT), and dotweaving could even be a loss. So again, the benefit from dotweaving depends on your current stats.

[Kulle]

It's even less if you're not using SoD (SoD gets extra procs from dotweaving's VT) and then even less if you have high amounts of mastery. The net increase provided over a dotweaving cycle when not using SoD is the damage done by SW:P and VT using the GCDs that you would have spent on two Mind Spikes, i.e.:

Δ = (SW:P + VT) - 2MSp

If you have high amounts of mastery, 2MSp can be greater than (SW:P +VT), and dotweaving could even be a loss. So again, the benefit from dotweaving depends on your current stats.

Assuming 0% haste,

Mindspike (wowhead tooltip is incorrect) = 90.8% SP * CoP = 127% SP
SWP = 332.5% SP
VT = 292.5% SP

MS*2*Mastery = SWP + VT
127*2*Mastery = 332.5 + 292.5
254*Mastery = 625
Mastery = 2.46

You need 246% Mastery for dotweaving to not be worth it, which is not obtainable anytime soon (if at all).

[Dierdre]

You need 236% Mastery for dotweaving to not be worth it, which is not obtainable anytime soon (if at all).

Yep, it's unlikey to get to those amounts any time soon and without mastery procs. But even then, that difference applies only to ~13% of your Mind Spike damage, so don't expect 5% dps differences from it.

[Naga Coatl]

Sorry if I ask this again, but I have not found answers elsewhere: at what point should the t16 2p/4p be broken? At the dummies I do a little more dps with the old 569 4p than with four 630-636 heroic blu pieces, and this without the execute phase where I believe the old tier boni shine because of all the DP --> MB/SWD spam.

Is it just a 'feeling' or is the old t16 still strong?

[Deleted]

just upgraded to pvp cloak and pants(+4ilvl), and got the nerfed bleed enchant and my dummy dps rose from 11.8k to 13.5k which is pretty damn insane. With my improved talent spec(had mindbender) and pre-pots I can probably do 22-23k on butcher now at least, I guess the DPS requirement on him isn't as bad as I thought.