[6.0] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Dierdre]

Still have faith in them to keep us competitive with everyone else

Getting tuned down while warrior/mage get tuned up doesn't help much with the faith though.

[Deleted]

Also were you able to gear just from quest, or have you been able to do raid etc for gear?

All of our raiders use copied characters. We also used PvP gear, but that was for heroic testing.

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Getting tuned down while warrior/mage get tuned up doesn't help much with the faith though.

They nerfed warriors quite a bit, today they buffed execute, but CS got a big nerf, before that slam got literally cut in half.

The problem is that arms has a lot of aoe cooldowns and aoe spells (whirlwind) as single target fillers & they haven't even started AoE tuning yet.

Thus they are remaining artificially high as a result. As soon as the whirlwind, ravager nerfs come in, they'll drop quite a bit.

[Ilir]

Getting tuned down while warrior/mage get tuned up doesn't help much with the faith though.

It was only fire mage buff this time, wasn't it ? Isn't frost mage spec that is high on meter ?

[Valkaneer]

It was only fire mage buff this time, wasn't it ? Isn't frost mage spec that is high on meter ?

Fury got buffed too, and I'm pretty sure fury is was already higher dps.

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All of our raiders use copied characters. We also used PvP gear, but that was for heroic testing.

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They nerfed warriors quite a bit, today they buffed execute, but CS got a big nerf, before that slam got literally cut in half.

The problem is that arms has a lot of aoe cooldowns and aoe spells (whirlwind) as single target fillers & they haven't even started AoE tuning yet.

Thus they are remaining artificially high as a result. As soon as the whirlwind, ravager nerfs come in, they'll drop quite a bit.

You doing PvP or PvE? Short burst Spriest has been really good, but long fights unless you have high crit your going to be not doing so well.

I think we have a serious gap here between PvE Spriest and PvP Spriest and what is considered good.

[Deleted]

Oh wow the T17 set bonus for shadow seems really bad:

"(2) Set: Consuming Shadow Orbs resets the cooldown of Mind Blast."

I mean, for anyone who takes Insanity does this mean it's more beneficial to cast Devouring Plague and then Mind Blast before casting any Mind Flays?

[britishbubba]

Oh wow the T17 set bonus for shadow seems really bad:

"(2) Set: Consuming Shadow Orbs resets the cooldown of Mind Blast."

I mean, for anyone who takes Insanity does this mean it's more beneficial to cast Devouring Plague and then Mind Blast before casting any Mind Flays?

That's certainly what it sounds like. It's anti synergy with insanity.

[Relapses]

And yet again, the SPriest community wonders if Blizzard even plays this fucking game.

._.

[Deleted]

You can use that statement on each class forum.

[Deleted]

ooooooo common wtf srs what was that with the glyph of mind harvest + 6 secs on mind blast so we have 9+6=15 sec ??? again they want us to start with no burst and make half hour to reach the middle from bottom of dps !!!!

[Venaliter]

Still, to be able to actually buff MF, they'd have to take the damage from DP/MB. Taken the rough numbers from a few pages ago - to get MF to ~35%, you'd have to cut DP/MB by an additional 10-15%.

I'd wouldn't find it unlikely if they just take the cheap way out and remove SW:P's direct damage...

They better not. SW:P's initial damage breaks flag caps. That's pretty goddamn critical in PvP.

Anyway, I'd like to know the theorycraft on VoiD Entropy now that they (mostly) reverted to nerfs to it. I'd also like to know if Celestalon was talking about THIS Void Entropy when we were talking about the nerfed one. Somehow I doubt it. I bet he double checked his numbers, found he was glaringly, blindingly wrong and quietly reverted his nerf. THAT answer, and his answer on Void Shift, and his general silence on Priests for the last six months..I'd never question his numbers, his mathematical ability is like witchcraft to me, but it seems to me he just doesn't get Priests.

Edit: He talked about Archangel being adjusted on his Blue post on Disc, the CD on AA was accidentally removed. He answered THREE times AA's CD being removed was a bug, but ignored tons of Priests asking "Hey, so about AA - How are you thinking you are going to change it?". Seems sort of unfair to say "AA is overtuned.", promise to update us on AA, then the CD is "accidentally" removed, then proceed to blatantly ignore the people asking what's up with it. I'm sure if we were DKS or Warriors we'd get a response.

[Tehterokkar]

ooooooo common wtf srs what was that with the glyph of mind harvest + 6 secs on mind blast so we have 9+6=15 sec ??? again they want us to start with no burst and make half hour to reach the middle from bottom of dps !!!!

Excuse me, but what...?

Mind Harvest Glyph allows you to gain 3 Orbs from the first Mind Blast of the fight.

Besides, it's a very OP glyph for any fight with adds raining down constantly(eg. Will of the Emperor or Horridon). Glyphs are no longer always a DPS increase, they are situational increases, no Major Glyph is a DPS increase in single-target patchwerk from what I have seen.

[Annesh]

Glyphs are no longer always a DPS increase, they are situational increases, no Major Glyph is a DPS increase in single-target patchwerk from what I have seen.

Right, which is why it should never have been a glyph at all, it should have been a perk or just a baked in mechanic. Orbs on pull is something we'd been asking for, but they inexplicably gave it to us in glyph form.

Us having orbs on the pull is important. It allows us to participate in that all-important pull burst phase. And notably, it is a clear DPS gain over how we've been in MoP, where without critters or CC'd trash mobs to build orbs on, our build-up time put our burst phase long after the pot/lust/initial trinket procs have all expired.

So what we need is something that's a clear DPS increase, but glyphs can't do that. Hence, it should not be a glyph.

[Deleted]

Fury got buffed too, and I'm pretty sure fury is was already higher dps.

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You doing PvP or PvE? Short burst Spriest has been really good, but long fights unless you have high crit your going to be not doing so well.

I think we have a serious gap here between PvE Spriest and PvP Spriest and what is considered good.

I'm playing PvE priest, PvP priest is dreadful I imagine, though AS with high crit in pvp might be silly though.

It was only fire mage buff this time, wasn't it ? Isn't frost mage spec that is high on meter ?

Fire mages were miles behind, they needed a buff. Frost mages are inflated... skada/recount/wcl/wol are counting friendly fire onto the crystal as normal damage, while celestalon said it should be filtered out so it doesn't inflate the meters when it's technically not doing that amount of damage. They got really big nerfs the build before though.

That's certainly what it sounds like. It's anti synergy with insanity.

I think the set is designed around AS. Then again AS only works well when there's more than 2 targets.

AS already makes it hard to use insanity with more than one target if you have enough crit (due to incoming orbs).

With 35% crit on iron maidens I got over 70 orbs in a 2 minute time frame, so yeah that's pretty much high uptime on that 4set.

Don't see with that amount of orb income how you are supposed to wave insanity in between it. Probably mindbender is the only talent to use.

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Looking at sims with the current nerfs. AS and COP are very close in terms of performance.

Warriors is the most untuned class, looking at their damage charts, ravager seems the problem.

So I expect once the aoe tuning happens, ravager/whirlwind will do a lot less damage (+- 30% of warrior st damage).

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The other thing I noticed is all classes are getting brought up or nerfed to around 20k dps. I think it's their balancing point for WoD.

[Ilir]

About the "anti-insanity" 2p, MB should reset the duration of the insanity buff, shouldn't it ?

obviously, not the free instant MB that I don't know which talent provides us.

[Deleted]

About the "anti-insanity" 2p, MB should reset the duration of the insanity buff, shouldn't it ?

obviously, not the free instant MB that I don't know which talent provides us.

Think it's pretty safe to say you won't be using insanity the next tier, they are on the path of destroying the talent for-good. (not joking) :P

[Blackmorgrim]

From the Sims we did the previous build, honestly I think they've done a really good job with balancing. AS, VEnt, and CoP right now are all within 1k DPS of each other. Before, VEnt was at 19.5k, AS at 21k, and CoP at 22k. So, with the changes made, it looks like you might really be able to choose any spec your want for single target. (T17 not included, which will make a huge difference) However, as has been said, right now Simulationcraft seems to be broken in that the set bonus seems to only work when you have SoD and ToF chosen.

It makes a nice baseline at least. Then when they do multitarget tuning they can raise/lower single target to compensate for lack of multitarget. I assume AS is going to get some heavy handed tuning when multitarget hits.

[Sarkol]

Getting tuned down while warrior/mage get tuned up doesn't help much with the faith though.

Only Fire got tuned up a bit, and it needs it. The other specs haven't been touched. Stop.

[Tanned]

I assume AS is going to get some heavy handed tuning when multitarget hits.

Auspicious Spirits is strong. Napkin math still says that Auspicious Spirits is stronger than Void Entropy, even in single target situations, but not by as much as before. The biggest advantage of AS is that it is so easy and cheap to set up. To get Void Entropy rolling on 3 targets, you need more than a minute's worth of Mind Blast shadow orbs.

Here's my napkin math, in case you care:

Assume 100% uptime on SW:P. It ticks every 3/(1+[Haste %]) seconds per target with Auspicious Spirits generating an orb [Crit %] of the time. Assume 20% Buffed Haste and 20% Buffed Crit (after Crit suppression). You're getting ticks every 3/1.2 = 2.5 seconds or 24 ticks of pain per minute per target. Of those 24 ticks, you can expect 4.8 of them to Crit, generating a shadow orb each time. So every minute you get an extra 1.6 Devouring Plagues (600% SP, increased by other stats, including Crit) or 960% SP at the cost of 4.8 Shadowy Apparitions (each 45% SP, increased by other stats including Crit) or 216% SP and 1.6 extra GCDs (or .8 of a Mind Flay) to maintain.

Since Devouring Plague is subject to the same stats as Auspicious Spirits you can subtract AS from DP directly (e.g., 100x - 89x = 11x). Auspicious Spirits is worth 744% SP per minute per target (as increased by other stats, including Crit) and costs an extra 1.6 GCDs (or .8 of a Mind Flay) to maintain. Mind Flay scales with Mastery, so it is not as easy to compare.

Compare to Void Entropy, which is worth 750%*(1+[Haste %]) or 900% per target at this gear level, with an initial opportunity cost of of a Devouring Plague (600%). In minute one, Void Entropy is worth 300% SP, and after minute two, Void Ent is worth 1200% SP per target and after minute three Void Ent is worth 2100% SP per target. With three targets up, you may not have the necessary Shadow Orbs to apply Void Ent to all the targets until 1.5 minutes into the fight. Void Entropy also costs 1 GCD per target, and does not apply any extra damage to the target until applied, whereas getting the benefit of Auspicious Spirits per new target is immediate.

[Deleted]

I guess in 3 target situations with high crit and AS, you pretty much have full uptime on that 4set? Anyone simmed that *likeliness* yet?

[Drye]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Celestalo...26752414990337

You got a response Yav. Tuning issues.