[6.0] Shadow Priest Discussion

[Zoulis]

I also think CoP outside of execute phase is extremely boring and simple. There needs to be something added to it IMO.

This exactly! it feels annoying to spam mind spike all the time... And wehn DP is used, it feels so underwhelming in comparison to now, even with insanity.

[davie]

Been playing around with CoP + FDCL + TOF/Di(Si) it feels better then it did in early Alpha but still not keen on the way DP works with it, it doesn't feel right switching to MF for those periods.

Bug I've noticed that I haven't seen anyone mention, I forgot to glyph mind harvest as I'm sure everyone does straight away, but it actually added 4 seconds to my MB cool down - CD was 5 secs with CoP and no glyph. Put the glyph on and its now 9 Secs, reported as a bug as this doesn't seem correct unless I've missed something?! Its the same with each 100 talent at the min!

[Cerbz]

Been playing around with CoP + FDCL + TOF/Di(Si) it feels better then it did in early Alpha but still not keen on the way DP works with it, it doesn't feel right switching to MF for those periods.

Bug I've noticed that I haven't seen anyone mention, I forgot to glyph mind harvest as I'm sure everyone does straight away, but it actually added 4 seconds to my MB cool down - CD was 5 secs with CoP and no glyph. Put the glyph on and its now 9 Secs, reported as a bug as this doesn't seem correct unless I've missed something?! Its the same with each 100 talent at the min!

It's not a bug.

[BooQT]

My initial thoughts playing beta:

- Mind Spike is hitting ridiculously hard.
- Through level 92 I'm one shotting pretty much everything with the initial damage on DP, the initial 100% heal change up front was much needed as it almost never actually ticks.
- Void Entropy feels weak, then again I'm only 92 and it's a lvl 100 talent so the jury's still out.
- Glyph of Mind Harvest is amazing and basically mandatory. I usually MB + PW:P for three orbs one target, DP another and they're both dead almost instantly. Rinse and repeat for leveling.

I'm looking forward to testing out raid fights!

[davie]

It's not a bug.

Well, suppose its not so mandatory anymore unless the boss has a constant stream of spawning adds.

[Deleted]

From tonight on gruul.

Void entropy needs to be removed 68k damage from a dot over 1 min is just pathetic, 1 DP does that damage in like 1/10th of the same time.

Void entropy doesn't make any sense to cost 3 orbs and have a cast time. It should compliment on DP, not annoy DP.

Void entropy would make more sense if it's an updated version of DP, aka it replaces DP, because having 2 x 3-orb dots is very weird.

> I would replace this talent by the old shadow priest mastery, aka your dots have a 30% chance to tick an additional time.

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Clarity of power, it's a good concept, but it's completely bland and it needs some QoL changes.

* When you spec both CoP and SoD your casted mindspikes should not remove dots.
(even though I like the mind flay during dp, they might aswell just make us cast mind spike 24/7)
* Your DP should have an increased chance to proc SoD.
* Mind spikes that are casted should also have a chance.

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Auspicious spirits is a good talent, but it feels to me that at some point it will be too erratic, on multidot fights you'll be overflown in orbs and you'll pretty much get more orbs than you can spend per gcd = lost resources. Then again apparitions seem to have really shit spawn rates at this point. So I'm not sure.

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They should also bring back haste reducing the channel time of mind flay so that insanity stays competitive, because atm it's not.

[Deleted]

They should also bring back haste reducing the channel time of mind flay so that insanity stays competitive, because atm it's not.

I hope its just a bug, and if not it will be enormously stupid

[Deleted]

I hope its just a bug, and if not it will be enormously stupid

Err tooltip bug on my client it seems. Still reduces with haste, just not a lot -.-

[Deleted]

On yesterday's test I've played solely Full mastery (food/enchants/flask) Fcdl/DI/CP and I was quite surprised how competitive single target we are.
The thing I like the most about it is that we suddenly got very mobile compared to the other rangeds who lost their dps-on-move spells. Not having to take Insanity and still do damage is also very nice, since few sec self-root high dpet spell tied to our filler is a goddamm awful idea.

[Yvaelle]

Tweeted Celestalon / Holinka about Void Entropy:

@Celestalon @Holinka What's the plan for Void Entropy? Pitiful damage, dispellable, cast-time, 3-orb cost: worst Faerie Fire clone ever!

Hopefully it will goad them into a response, maybe some reflection - and possibly a fix / replacement

[Deleted]

Yeah let's hope they notice it, such a bad talent

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder about the stats. Are you all going Mastery > Crit or Mastery > Haste.

Farming old raids atm to get some better gear stats and wondering what to aim for after mastery.

[Deleted]

We need some serious tweet power for changing our CoP rotation, I can't really see them change the rotation per se right now. Outside of executes it's simply too bland and needs more interactive elements like proccs. Hazori made some good suggestions.

[Voidism]

Perhaps making Void Entropy strength stack up to x times would make it better? Like Agony but you have to build the stacks yourself. (and of course, increase the damage so it's higher overall than casting a DP instead)

[Deleted]

Perhaps making Void Entropy strength stack up to x times would make it better? Like Agony but you have to build the stacks yourself. (and of course, increase the damage so it's higher overall than casting a DP instead)

I think void entropy is just a balance issue, increasing the damage to actually be worth casting would help :P

[Deleted]

Even if they make it stronger, it's still a stupid talent with stupid parameters to apply it.

CoP and AS are far too superior in pretty much every situation compared to void entropy.

AS and CoP can both be used in multidot, aoe, and singlet target situations, with crafty gameplay.

(Crafty as in for cop, apply dots to non important council bosses for extra procs while tunneling down the main target).

[Zoulis]

When running CoP

I went for mastery and 20% haste just so I can have MB at 8secs so it feels like live when running the mind harvest glyph.
w/o the mind harvest glyph I went full mastery

When running AS

I went for haste > crit ( still had close to 60+% mastery though )since with the gear on beta i had like 12% crit.. Which really wasn't enough for AS

I didn't run VEnt at all unfortunately, we didn't get to test butcher at all and had problems with loging on for gruul also so we only had like 5-6 pulls.

Running SoD with CoP is annoying. SoD can only procc in DP phases when no adds are involved and I got a maximum of 2 proccs. Can't hope for more than that tbh. And insanity is so underwhelming it's making me sad.
Still it seems like the best picks for both butcher and gruul would be SoD (since Insanity is shit) + CoP + SI (since there's nothing to procc ToF off and MBs hit pretty hard actually). At the moment. With more crit I guess AS + SoD could overtake CoP though I guess that more crit would mean also being able to get more mastery so that's debateable.

Things that came to my attention:

As most of you said CoP feels boring... DP phases are underwhelming... they need to do sth... I wouldn't mind the MSp spam if the DP phase felt good. But it feels like shit, they really need to do something about it. At the moment on live when you DP you feel like you're destroying things. On Beta it was like meh.. Ok I DPd i'm using a normal MF one and a half times and back to MSp spam yeeey. So it sort of gives a T13 set bonus feeling but I'd like to have more things to do. i guess that with adds we'll have multi dotting going on etc, but I don't want every single target fight feeling like that.
AS on the other hand felt nice, I'm pretty sure that at some point we'll be able to track when a SA spawns w/o having to just look at our screen for them :P maybe an addon especially made for that or just weak auras. But again with 12% crit it felt shit :P It was like the talent wasn't even there. There's still the problem with ToF feeling worse than SI atm and going both SoD + SI + AS will make us gcd locked at some point but I guess that can be fixed.
I didn't try out VEnt but from what I can see it's weak. The stack mechanic seemed nice, like maybe give it a stack to deal extra dmg every time we DP the target with VEent on, or increase it's duration as a fire and forget DoT, like the WotLK SW:P with MF.

[Deleted]

DP extending it and making it deal more damage seems a very good idea, but still I don't think it belongs in the 100 tier.

[Theed]

I think void entropy is just a balance issue, increasing the damage to actually be worth casting would help :P

It would help in PvE, yes. But in pvp it will get instantly dispelled.

[Deleted]

question: did they fix halo do not require add on for distance?

[Erohol]

I may be in the minority here, but I'm really liking the way that CoP is working out right now.
I would agree that I feel like it might need a little more complexity on single target - especially if you don't take SoD and SI to go with it (or can't benefit from them for a particular fight) - but I think that tuning will go a long way towards fixing that.

As it is, it's pretty much not worth it to use MF during DP if you can use the time for other things (SoD procs, movement, dotting up adds)
but if Insanity-the-Talent is no longer as awesome as it is on live, then perhaps making it baseline could help.

Perhaps replace Insanity with a talent that either spreads SW:P and/or VT (most likely just VT, because of AS being a talent and SW:P being instant) to targets hit by Mind Sear, or one that makes DP hit all targets in a radius around the central target for, say, 66%/33% damage.

A CoP where MF is worth casting in a pure single target situation then concerns itself with MS, MB, DP, MF, or 4 rotational buttons (5 inside execute) and in a multidot situation, SW:P and VT make 6(7).

Compare this to an Insanity/ToF/AS build, MF, MB, DP, VT, SW:P makes 5 rotational abilities (6 execute) for pure single target, and 5 in multidot.

What I've been doing, and have found incredibly fun (if perhaps not mathematically optimal) is to spec Body and Soul and to glyph Reflective Shield and Weakened Soul.
I'm incredibly mobile because of this, and with an 8 second Weakened Soul, I can theoretically maintain 100% uptime on a shield of between ~25k HP and ~50k HP. Reflecting 70% of that back means up to ~17.5k damage and ~35k damage over 8 to 15 seconds for one GCD. Sure, it's nothing to write home about, but considering everything else I get with it (spood beest, shield) that's kind of awesome. Raiding with a Disc Priest could interfere with this plan, but it works for me, and gives me another button to press on an almost rotational basis, thus upping the complexity of CoP.


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Void Entropy is, well... It needs a redesign. It's been talked about at length.

Auspicious Spirits will likely go live as it is, and be tweaked in various ways throughout the course of the expansion.
In 6.1, they'll buff the rate at which you proc Apparitions as a way to buff single target damage for non-CoP Spriests, thus breaking multi-target balance.
Where CoP briefly reigned champion in a situation where you could dot up adds/council members for procs, AS will wind up giving 2 targets enough procs to maintain 100% uptime on DP on one target. 6.2 will see them tweak the proc chance again, but new raid gear will make sure that the problem persists.
6.3 will see a cap put into place on the amount of Apparitions you can proc. Combined with a new design for Void Entropy finally arriving and making it suddenly worth casting, utilizing it optimally will see it as the leading 100 talent by a whopping 5% dps.

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Psychic Horror is a little too awesome, and I accept the inevitable change of the perk that increased its duration by 2 more seconds. The new pvp 4 piece makes it okay.
The pvp 2 piece is sub-par, even at the level of numbers, as the amount of Versatility that is proc'd provides less than 1% damage reduction.
I'd also prefer to see more defense being spread out across the rest of our utility rather than stapled to the back-end of an already defensive-cooldown, but I run Reflective Shield / Body and Soul, so I'm pretty okay for now.

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Finally, Vampiric Touch either needs a name change or something to replace the mana return. It is neither Vampiric nor Touchy in its current form.
The old pvp dispel-fear effect is now baseline for it, so anything too helpful might be too much. But say, a 5%/10%/15% leech effect (capped/target) could prove interesting. It'd be a huge boost to SPriest survivability, and it would provide an interesting problem for PVP. Do you dispel VT and eat the fear to hurt the SPriest's survivability, or do you DPS through it?