Looking to get GOOD at balance, not sure what to change in my playstyle

[cszsolt3]

Hey, I am a fairly new balance player. Currently raiding in a 25 man HC environment. I am a bit of a min-maxer and it really irks me if I am not doing the best I could on a fight.

I got a few logs , I picked 2 fights where I think I did allright, there are more fights in there but on some of them I ended up dying, dcing, or made mistakes which I know how to fix. I think it would help me more if you criticized fights where I can't find daring mistakes.

Iron jug 25 hc (running to the back during p2) : http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...done&source=19
Thok 25 hc: http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...done&source=17

I'll also link my gear: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Nalorn/simple , as you can see im currently a bit oversatured on spirit, but I just got a new ring which will help with that immensely. (new upgrade system is bollocks tho, 1 full week to upgrade a new item )

I appreciate ANY feedback really, be as harsh as you can ! Thank you for the help in advance.

[Daetur]

I think you probably want the Druid forum.
Moved.

[cszsolt3]

I think you probably want the Druid forum.
Moved.

You are absolutely right ! Sorry for my mistake.

[Saradir]

Took a quick look at the Iron Jugg. fight.
Link: tinyurl.com/NalornUptimes

It seems you struggled abit with movement which cost you your flow.
Especially at one point around 0:43-0:57 into the fight.
Borer Drills happen and you take damage from it so I can only guess that you either stopped to kite them or someone kited it over you, forcing you to move.

During this time period you stopped all DPS (tinyurl.com/NalornCasts). You did Barkskin, Rejuv yourself and use a NS that then didn't get spent for 90 seconds.
This made you sit in Lunar eclipse almost twice aslong as usual, forgot to Starfall until 10 seconds into that Lunar, lost NG which you for the rest almost have perfect uptime on. So that short period of Borer Drills made a sudden stop in all DPS and cost you some amount of time to recover from.

---
Gearwise you start to have to watch your Crit. You are at a point where your Shooting Stars procs start to get wasted.
You did 64 Starsurges. 3 hardcasts and 61 instant. You had 82 SS procs.
61/82= 74,4%
It is just something to be aware of, especially now when double upgrades are in and you will get even more secondaries over time.

[cszsolt3]

Took a quick look at the Iron Jugg. fight.
Link: tinyurl.com/NalornUptimes

It seems you struggled abit with movement which cost you your flow.
Especially at one point around 0:43-0:57 into the fight.
Borer Drills happen and you take damage from it so I can only guess that you either stopped to kite them or someone kited it over you, forcing you to move.

During this time period you stopped all DPS (tinyurl.com/NalornCasts). You did Barkskin, Rejuv yourself and use a NS that then didn't get spent for 90 seconds.
This made you sit in Lunar eclipse almost twice aslong as usual, forgot to Starfall until 10 seconds into that Lunar, lost NG which you for the rest almost have perfect uptime on. So that short period of Borer Drills made a sudden stop in all DPS and cost you some amount of time to recover from.

---
Gearwise you start to have to watch your Crit. You are at a point where your Shooting Stars procs start to get wasted.
You did 64 Starsurges. 3 hardcasts and 61 instant. You had 82 SS procs.
61/82= 74,4%
It is just something to be aware of, especially now when double upgrades are in and you will get even more secondaries over time.

You are right, I am currently working on trying to cancel more casts for the instant procs . One more question though, looking at my openers, do you think they were executed well in general? There are several classes that pull ahead of me on the openers, I am not sure where I should placed in that situation in general.

What I usually do for an opener is put the eclipse bar to 75 at solar, pop a starsurge when pull timer is at 2. This puts me into solar eclipse, I pop starfall , then use incarnation + CA

[xtramuscle]

What I usually do for an opener is put the eclipse bar to 75 at solar, pop a starsurge when pull timer is at 2. This puts me into solar eclipse, I pop starfall , then use incarnation + CA

For single target this is not the way to do it; you're better off with pre lunar opener (fairly sure its on a sticky so wont go into it) I think solar opener still gives better burst on multi target like protectors and dark shaman, providing the dogs die at the end of your CDs, if they're up way after, you may be better off with lunar there aswell.

[Deleted]

For single target this is not the way to do it; you're better off with pre lunar opener (fairly sure its on a sticky so wont go into it) I think solar opener still gives better burst on multi target like protectors and dark shaman, providing the dogs die at the end of your CDs, if they're up way after, you may be better off with lunar there aswell.

Is lunar better for single target? I thought because of CD stacking and procs and stuff solar was better?

[Saradir]

Like xtramuscle said aswell as the single target opener I use myself is the pre-lunar opener.
You get 3 Starfalls back to back within Lunar/CA buff aswell as hardcast the heavy hitting Starfire with all the CDs and procs.

As listed in the sticky:
-Start fight one cast pre-Lunar.
-Starfall
-Wrath once
-Incarnation
-Nature's Vigil (if you have it)
-Sunfire, Moonfire
-Starfall (when first Starfall duration ends)
-Starfire until 0 energy
-Celestial Alignment
-Starfall (when second Starfall duration ends)
-Moonfire (Sunfire will automatically be applied)
-Starfire (utilize shooting stars procs)
-Refresh Moonfire immediately before Celestial Alignment expires
-Starfire to Solar Eclipse

[Deleted]

Like xtramuscle said aswell as the single target opener I use myself is the pre-lunar opener.
You get 3 Starfalls back to back within Lunar/CA buff aswell as hardcast the heavy hitting Starfire with all the CDs and procs.

As listed in the sticky:
-Start fight one cast pre-Lunar.
-Starfall
-Wrath once
-Incarnation
-Nature's Vigil (if you have it)
-Sunfire, Moonfire
-Starfall (when first Starfall duration ends)
-Starfire until 0 energy
-Celestial Alignment
-Starfall (when second Starfall duration ends)
-Moonfire (Sunfire will automatically be applied)
-Starfire (utilize shooting stars procs)
-Refresh Moonfire immediately before Celestial Alignment expires
-Starfire to Solar Eclipse

If u do it like this i think your whole proccs are wasted completly cause u trigger your best coolddown 15 sek after the pull + incarnation gcd infight sucks


I recommend starting in Solar. Pre pot, pre incarnation, pre starfall, pre starfire, pull, pop mush + beam on boss (erverything proccs), CA, dot, surgeproccs>starfire, 2nd metaprocc before CA ends -> dot, 2nd starfall, go to lunar, rotation, still in lunar 3rd procc of meta, dot dot, 3rd starfall, incarnation ends, normal rotation. Pop up 2nd cooldowns/berserk only on meta+huge int procs.

sry 4 bad eng.

- - - Updated - - -

pre starfire

edit:
pre starsurge of course

[Frozendekay]

For single target this is not the way to do it; you're better off with pre lunar opener (fairly sure its on a sticky so wont go into it) I think solar opener still gives better burst on multi target like protectors and dark shaman, providing the dogs die at the end of your CDs, if they're up way after, you may be better off with lunar there aswell.

Solar opener is pretty standard for single target. Top 5 IJ parses on warcraftlogs use Solar.

[timmytompadderham]

Solar opener is pretty standard for single target. Top 5 IJ parses on warcraftlogs use Solar.

That doesn't mean it's necessarily better. For simplicity's sake easiest to tell newer players to use that style of opener. Using CA on pull benefits the most from good RNG, while opening pre-lunar is better protection against late Bindings procs and gains more starfalls and starfalls that are buffed by lunar longer.

It's an RNG spec and the top parses are the top parses because low kill times, high crit ratios on starsurge, and high toxic power uptimes. Not the opener that was used.

[cszsolt3]

New logs from tonight's raid : http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...LKH38q#fight=2

I am especially curious of my seemingly lacking performance on protectors , and interested in learning how to maximise my dps. I jumped 2 ilvls since last week, but I actually did far worse on IJ for example.

[xtramuscle]

As I stated in my original post, Solar does give better burst, but you'll also notice it tails off extremely fast. You might peak at 2mil dps, but its all downhill from there. Where as with lunar you may only peak for 1.6mil but you sustain above 1mil FAR longer doing more dps.

- - - Updated - - -

Solar opener is pretty standard for single target. Top 5 IJ parses on warcraftlogs use Solar.

Oh really? Well the top parse is only 39 seconds long so we'll discount that one. As for the next 5 parses, 3 used solar and two used lunar. So I wouldn't read too much into that if I were you. Also as I suggested all 5 players maintained 90+ % uptime on NG, and had fight kills less than 4 minutes. You may simply find people are popping their cooldowns in solar on pull simply because if they pop them lunar instead, their kill is so quick they wont get a second set; obviously 2 x solar CD sets > 1 x lunar in almost any scenario.

With the OPs kill being almost 5 minutes long, he wont have that problem in the foreseeable future.

[Glurp]

I see no reason to use the Lunar opener over the Solar opener except on specific fights where mechanics prefer the Lunar opener. The Solar opener has the possibility to be AMAZING if you get both trinket procs from your mushrooms and at it's worst it is equal to the Lunar opener. I find the people who don't like the Solar opener are generally not using it properly (not blowing mushrooms on pull or trying to cast extra spells before popping CDs).

In the end which opener you use won't make a significant impact on your DPS so if you're looking to improve your gameplay then look elsewhere.

[timmytompadderham]

Your bindings still won't proc 100% of the time on the pull. I've known how to bait trinket procs before you figured it out lmfao. I also figured out that solarbeam can trigger it as well. Regardless, It's about 10-20% where it won't and you'll have to clip too excessively or miss a bunch of procs if you don't. The safest way to open single target is still lunar opener, using berserk on the pull after your precast, and hitting CA at the last second of all the 10second procs and berserking.

I've used both and you are royally screwed if bindings doesn't proc on the pull. I'd rather be safe most of the time. That being said, if you want to bank on it proccing the second you pull the boss, opening with both ca and incarn might be good for good rng parses.

This is disregarding fight mechanics, and speaking in general single target.

[Glurp]

Your bindings still won't proc 100% of the time on the pull. I've known how to bait trinket procs before you figured it out lmfao

Bindings not proccing on pull really isn't an issue. Bindings proccing on pull is more of something which is going to be a massive bonus to your DPS in the same way that back-to-back meta procs with the Lunar opener is a massive boost to your DPS but isn't a key component of making the opener work

Also clearly I am out of the loop in not knowing that there is some sort of hipster competition for using openers before everyone else is.

[timmytompadderham]

I find the people who don't like the Solar opener are generally not using it properly (not blowing mushrooms on pull or trying to cast extra spells before popping CDs).

to which I replied that I knew how to bait trinket procs long before you were doing it. Idc that you finally figured out alternative openers two tiers late. Not really my business. But if you care to spread misinformation about why you think one is better, at least get your facts straight and understand the pros and cons of each. Again, CA+INC on the pull is primarily for really good rng parses, but there's very good parses with each.

The best average would be using lunar, because it alleviates a lot of poor rng on the pull with extra time for bindings to proc and more time on lunar buffed starfall (your highest dpet and often more starfalls to boot), and still gets all the procs with CA dots, so using CA with inc immediately isn't very unique in doing that.

Edit: the only situation in which it's even remotely possible that going all-in right away would be hands-down better could be if you have one skull banner or some odd situation like that.

[Deleted]

dunno why so many ppl think too much about buffed starfall here buffed starfall there..... Your dmg is gained by tracking your AND the raid buffs (in organized top raids these raidbuffs are used straight on the pull on most fights) so you have to make sure to be rdy at this time and have all ur trinkets cooldowns up, there is no room to wait. Every second not having everything up at this time is a huge loss. For the Topic creator: with your gear wasting 1 gcd on pull/in the first seconds of the fight with all raid buffs up is a loss of 1 million dmg (starsurge procc/starfire). so u have to make sure not to waste this!) Try lunar opener or solar opener (depending on the boss u fight, sometimes u need to be in solar 20 seconds after the pull to spam hurrican, sometimes not...

but:

-Start fight one cast pre-Lunar.
-Starfall
-Wrath once
-Incarnation

-Try not to do this.

Do as much as u can before the pull + Mushroom on pull!(do not if u need them right after the pull for ae) + beam!. You will see that in 90%+ of the cases alle your trinkets/meta will be instantly up.
After this compare the results


Track all buffs in weakauras or use an addon of your choise and make sure that your inc/ca profits from ALL of them for the whole Duration (al least ca!)

[Druidboii]

As I stated in my original post, Solar does give better burst, but you'll also notice it tails off extremely fast. You might peak at 2mil dps, but its all downhill from there. Where as with lunar you may only peak for 1.6mil but you sustain above 1mil FAR longer doing more dps.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh really? Well the top parse is only 39 seconds long so we'll discount that one. As for the next 5 parses, 3 used solar and two used lunar. So I wouldn't read too much into that if I were you. Also as I suggested all 5 players maintained 90+ % uptime on NG, and had fight kills less than 4 minutes. You may simply find people are popping their cooldowns in solar on pull simply because if they pop them lunar instead, their kill is so quick they wont get a second set; obviously 2 x solar CD sets > 1 x lunar in almost any scenario.

With the OPs kill being almost 5 minutes long, he wont have that problem in the foreseeable future.

If you do a solar opener you still get a full Lunar Eclipse in before Incarn runs out, so it doesn't trail off nearly as fast as you think it does, especially if the RNG gods love you and you get 3 meta procs.

As for your comment on IJ kills, the fastest 25man Heroic IJ kill at the time of your post was Paragon at 2:45 and the fastest 10man Heroic was Memento at 2:48. So not sure where this 39 seconds is coming from. (Unless you're talking about WoL then that's your first issue)

[Algroda]

Not OP here, but similar situation. New to moonkin, been playing it off and on since about halfway through SoO (main rogue all xpac till we needed a druid so I switched to my feral and started collecting moonkin gear).

I'm a bit behind in gear (575 this week. No PBoI at all). Part of me lagging behind is that I believe, but I do think I have a lot of room to improve through my own play.

Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...indre/advanced
Logs (will need to look at last few weeks, we took this one off): http://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/8531/

I know I'm at times messing up the opener and not always casting the right spell coming out of CE. I'm working on that.
I'm missing a significant portion of shooting stars when I multidot the adds. I hold on to starsurge when I'm about to push out of an eclipse. Is this a mistake? (Aka, if at 10 energy and have a proc with 2 adds left to dot. Throw out the starsurge and work back to eclipse, or dot the last two adds then continue on?)

With feral I know exactly when to reapply dots. For moonkin, when is it worth overwriting your dots? One proc? Two? And how many second left?

And if there's anything else you'd be able to help with that you see from the logs, it would be much appreciated.