Seal/Stance Dancing for Ret?: Empowered Seals (Level 100 Talent)

[TheZ]

So here's what it does in case some of you haven't seen it yet.

Your Seals also cause your Judgment to empower you with an additional beneficial effect which persists through changing Seals:
Judgment of Justice
Increases your movement speed by 20% for 20 sec.
Judgment of Insight
Heals you for 5% of your maximum health every 2 sec for 20 sec.
Judgment of Righteousness
Increases your attack speed by 30% for 20 sec.
Judgment of Truth
Increases your attack power by 15% for 20 sec.

Now, I'm curious how this will affect ret since we might be cycling through seal of truth and seal of righteousness to use in conjunction with judgement in order to keep up 30% atk speed and 15% atk power. Or will we only benefit from one of them at a time with the most recent application overriding the other? Or perhaps it might not even be beneficial to stance dance even if we had the option?

[Mormolyce]

I seem to recall a blue post stating that the idea of this talent is to bring back stance dancing for people who like that idea, so I think that is in fact the intention.

[Ryuji]

If the seals stay on the GCD, it will be clunky, and the opposite of what Blizzard wants. Inquisition used to last 30 seconds. This will end up having the min/maxers juggle two 20 second buffs, though one will be easier to juggle than the other considering a scenario such as a Patchwerk fight or a phase where you just wail on something will have you stick to Seal of Truth. Though it's not out of the question to change seals while out of range of a target, but in range enough to judge.

If the seals go off GCD, people will just macro it and it'll be like what Warriors did with Battle/Zerker stance back before MoP, which if I recall correctly, Blizzard didn't like that either.

As the talent stands now, it doesn't look very desirable considering Seraphim leans more towards heavy burst and Final Verdict is just Templar's Verdict but hits a lot harder. Dunno what they'll change for it when beta iterations hit, but I hope it changes for the better.

[taliey]

Seeing as how I am much more prepared for seal dancing, (compared to my pitiful BC style, and now), I would LOVE to see the idea of seal dancing being given a chance.

That's not to say, it may be optimal, but given the circumstances, its worth the try and the novelty makes me almost want to return and play WoW. Almost - until WoD comes out.

[Ryuji]

I wouldn't mind the talent if the seals themselves were off GCD, though I'd just macro it like I mentioned in my previous post. That and I still don't like Seal of Righteousness. Even after all this time, it feels weird to not have Seal of Command. Even if they just rename SoR to that, I'd be slightly happier. Maybe I'm nostalgia tripping. Or maybe change Rightousness to be for Prot and Holy, but it changes to Command for Ret and cleaves everything around you for 30%(or higher...or lower, whichever) of weapon damage or something, similar to what Blizzard is doing with Blade Flurry. Considering the current iteration of Divine Purpose losing the potential Divine Storm spam, it would help...slightly.

Could also bring back the old Seal of the Crusader judgement effect with this talent possibly, where the target would take increased holy damage from your attacks. Would mitigate the loss of Inquisition, or replace it entirely if the judgement effect made you do 30% more holy damage to the target.

[Deleted]

The word 'clunky' is often thrown around when describing the retribution paladin. Now, I'm not really in agreement with that but I do agree that clunkiness is not a good thing; and seal twisting is the epitome of clunk. I remember in Warhammer Online having to do something very similar when playing the chaos warrior - you just hit a new aura every few seconds so you could maintain the benefits of three at once. It was not a fun feature, just a pain in the arse.

[anaxie]

So here's what it does in case some of you haven't seen it yet.



Now, I'm curious how this will affect ret since we might be cycling through seal of truth and seal of righteousness to use in conjunction with judgement in order to keep up 30% atk speed and 15% atk power. Or will we only benefit from one of them at a time with the most recent application overriding the other? Or perhaps it might not even be beneficial to stance dance even if we had the option?

No offense but are you blind considering the 2 major ret threads have been discussing these talents for 30+ pages.

[Fhi]

This is being discussed in several open threads. Please feel free to join in any one of the discussions.