Redesigning Instance Queues: Putting People Back Into The World

[-Superman-]

Yes because that's all you'd want to do. I couldn't possibly want to farm on the Isle while waiting or do some old-time quests for Loremaster while waiting...

I don't disagree. I just think people should "give it a try". Who knows, maybe they would change things back if it didn't work. It would obviously put people in the world, increase world PvP, and make it so no one just skips right over the content they worked so hard to make.

[hyphnos]

I don't disagree. I just think people should "give it a try". Who knows, maybe they would change things back if it didn't work. It would obviously put people in the world, increase world PvP, and make it so no one just skips right over the content they worked so hard to make.

What is this overwhelming "concern" you people have for the "content that Blizzard works so hard to make". Do you sit at home and weep for Fox, CBS, NBC etc and all the "hard work" they put into shows you don't want to watch.

It's entertainment and if it's not entertaining to me, why the fuck should I care how much time or money Blizzard put into making it.

[-Superman-]

Were you around before the dungeon finder? I was, and honestly it wasn't enjoyable. So lets talk about that, shall we?

Leveling dungeons were completely worthless. You could maybe sometimes find a run for SM or Maraudon, and sometimes Sunken Temple for the class quests once they added those in. Most of the time though it was a real hassle to actually get to a dungeon so people just said whatever and skipped them. There were efficient ways to level, there are still more efficient ways to level than what Blizzard intends. So you hit a point where you're in the right level range for an instance ... but you're on the other side of the world from that instance. You could go sit around and wait for a group, questing inefficiently in the zone around it and hope for some gear upgrades IF you get into a run, orrrrrrrr you could just keep questing efficiently.

Ever run to an instance? Like .. actually run to one? I have. Back in Vanilla. And it sucked. Flying to the closest flightpath near to Dire Maul (for Alliance) or RFD/RFK and then hoofing it to the instance sometimes took longer than the instance itself. It wasn't fun.

Finding groups in BC wasn't fun either. Two of my top 5 favorite 5-mans of all time were in BC, but actually putting a group together and getting everyone there? Sucked. A lot. Spend anywhere between 15 and 45 minutes putting a group together, then people went "oh no summon, lols" and left. Or while people were running to the stone to summon someone would change their mind and leave.

Do you know what we did in Vanilla? We sat in Orgrimmar / Ironforge 90% of the time.
Do you know what we did in BC? We sat in Shattrath 90% of the time.
Do you know what we did in WLK? We sat in Dalaran / Stormwind / Orgrimmar 90% of the time.
And so on.

Creating a world and then forcing people to see it by imposing arbitrary restrictions on it is bad design. If you create a world and want people to see it, make it more appealing. I don't even know if they can do that.

They haven't gotten people to be out in the world in large numbers since Vanilla WoW, with the exception of quest hubs that gave large rewards or shiny mounts. Taking a few dozen steps backwards and imposing weird limitations on players isn't going to change that.
As for having to go to BG entrances to queue ... We did that for a huge chunk of Vanilla WoW, actually ... It didn't really make World PvP happen, because there were guards. There are always guards. We original PvPers who were ganking people when this new generation of MMO players weren't even born yet, asked for no guards and we got told "lolno." - World PvP isn't coming back. There's a huge disconnect between PvPers and Blizzard. But I read the entirety of Lord of the Rings while sitting outside of WSG and waiting in the queue between matches. Yes, really. It wasn't the most exciting experience of my life.

In Jan 2007, I used to run, on foot each day from South Shore to Scarlet Monastery just trying to grind to level 40 and get that first NightSaber. It was a pain. I would have to sneak past Lordaeron, avoid Brill, and stay off the road to avoid the vendor and the guard near the first set of trees. Ran all the way up to the stone just to join with someone else standing around and start summoning my friends. Inevitably, one person had to go, so we would just invite the new guy to come along.

There were some tight scrapes and sketchy moments in those days. But then, I got to 70, spent my 5K gold on a single epic gryphon, and the game would never be the same. Now, in WoD, the wings get plucked, and we go back to the ground, but we don't have to be inconvenienced to go out to the dungeon or raid instance. That QoL change remains. Maybe that change made us too comfortable and complacent. Surely there has to be more to the game than just hanging out in town, or on the timeless isle while we wait for the queue to pop. Maybe we just need more content near the entrance to these places to keep us entertained while we wait.

[clevin]

You're trying to bandage a gaping wound. LFD and LFR aren't fixable in the sense of getting people to participate in the world. They're features that encourage players to not do anything that can't easily be interrupted and the easiest way to not be in the middle of something is to be in town. While I fully understand the problems the features solve, they're overall a huge detriment to the game as an MMO. since they devalue guilds and in game friends lists and make it possible to see every bit of group PVE content even if you never socialize in the game at all.

[Ratboy]

I don't disagree. I just think people should "give it a try". Who knows, maybe they would change things back if it didn't work. It would obviously put people in the world, increase world PvP, and make it so no one just skips right over the content they worked so hard to make.

Nothing is stopping you and like minded individuals from doing all the things you posted about, I just don't want them force on me. I played when you had to travel to que for BG and I don't want to do it again.

[-Superman-]

What is this overwhelming "concern" you people have for the "content that Blizzard works so hard to make". Do you sit at home and weep for Fox, CBS, NBC etc and all the "hard work" they put into shows you don't want to watch.

It's entertainment and if it's not entertaining to me, why the fuck should I care how much time or money Blizzard put into making it.

According to Blizz, flying is being removed because it trivializes the content of the game. While talking with someone else, it occurred to us, teleporting does the exact same thing. I'm not suggesting to remove the queue entirely and force people to do something they don't wanna do, I was thinking about tweaking it so it still allows for the convenience of having a group created while simultaneously getting people out to the entrance of (insert choice item here) and then walking in to meet your party.

- - - Updated - - -

Nothing is stopping you and like minded individuals from doing all the things you posted about, I just don't want them force on me. I played when you had to travel to que for BG and I don't want to do it again.

I know what you mean. I feel the same way about ground mounts vs flying mounts. I just thought this would be a great way to make the content stand out and allow players to appreciate the world around them. Make it feel big again.

[Not Againnn]

YEAH NO WAY LOL

this is a horrible idea.

[chazus]

Here's an idea, similar to what I've seen about the "Garrison Outposts" in each zone.

You queue for an instance/LFR/whatever. When the queue pops, you run to the nearest "Meeting Area". There is one in every zone, so you are free to go about questing/whatever while you wait. The meeting area is similar to an instance portal for everything. You go in, and are ported to a instance specific 'waiting area' which provides reforging, repair, reagents, and quests pertinent to the instance/place you're about to go. Think of it like the tiny rooms before bosses in Megaman. Each BG, Instance, Raid, has it's own personal 'waiting area', and you'll meet up with your members of the group before actually entering the instance.

Quick and easy, doesn't interrupt, but still gives a meeting point and a sense of 'going there', as well as cutting down on 'oh I need to _____ first' delays.

[Kelathos]

What am I going to do at the summoning stone while I wait for the 40 minute DPS queue?

[-Superman-]

You're trying to bandage a gaping wound. LFD and LFR aren't fixable in the sense of getting people to participate in the world. They're features that encourage players to not do anything that can't easily be interrupted and the easiest way to not be in the middle of something is to be in town. While I fully understand the problems the features solve, they're overall a huge detriment to the game as an MMO. since they devalue guilds and in game friends lists and make it possible to see every bit of group PVE content even if you never socialize in the game at all.

Which is why I thought meeting outside the entrance of the Raid/Dungeon/BG/Arena would make for some great social interactions. Plus, without any flying in the new zones, everyone would have to be on the ground to interact with one another. Forced Social Interaction is not as bad as we think. Blizz seems to think so too, which is why we're going to give the new-old playstyle a try.

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

Although I spend some time in Org because I have to manage auctions, I generally spend most of my free time in the game running around killing things on Timeless Isle, or farming more Warbringers, or whatnot. Being FORCED to stand around in front of a remote BG portal with absolutely nothing to do would be a terrible change.

[-Superman-]

What am I going to do at the summoning stone while I wait for the 40 minute DPS queue?

You could fish, cook, duel, pet battle, hunt rares, help lowbies, or even just chat in the zone while alt tabbing. All the same things people do while sitting in SW and Org waiting for a queue to pop.

[Elim Garak]

What's stopping you from doing it right now? Why do you want to force normal people to suffer?

[-Superman-]

Although I spend some time in Org because I have to manage auctions, I generally spend most of my free time in the game running around killing things on Timeless Isle, or farming more Warbringers, or whatnot. Being FORCED to stand around in front of a remote BG portal with absolutely nothing to do would be a terrible change.

Being FORCED to do ANYTHING in this game is wrong. But, we should give it a try. I really think it could give us all a bigger perspective on the world of Azeroth. No more flying over it or rushing through it. We can all spend time together, out in the world, on the ground, interacting.

[Perkunas]

The whiney and lazy people in this thread make my head hurt. They seem to be content with this lobby game that's replaced what was one the best MMO and that is a shame.

[-Superman-]

What's stopping you from doing it right now? Why do you want to force normal people to suffer?

I asked people the same thing about ground mounts. Apparently, flying is a convenience that people choose simply because it is available. However, removing that convenience seems to be the method by which our forced social interaction would occur. So, it just made sense that if Instance queues were to blame for the population deficiency, maybe we need to remove the teleportation factor. Quick travel is ruining the game, according to the Devs. This would actually get people out in the zones again and experiencing the world they've created for us. I liked the idea so much, I even tweeted it to Alex, Chris, and Bashiok. Hopefully, they agree.

[thigan]

You would still queue for the Raid, Dungeon, BG, Arena, etc; however, you would do so by clicking on the Summoning Stone and joining the queue from a sub menu. So, if you are a PvPer, and want to run Alterac Valley, You would need to talk to the BattleMaster outside the BG and then ENTER once your group is formed. You would no longer be transported from SW/Org to AV. If you are using LFR, you would click the summoning stone outside of the Raid, select the LFR queue option, and then enter the raid once your group is formed.

Don't link the type of queue to the entrance. There is a BIG difference between the random queue and the selection of specific instances queue. This has nothing to do with immersion, this affect player retention heavily. Can't be done. See where we are now in terms of queue. If I'm in a dps I can queue to scenario, dungeon and LFR at the same time, or 5 LFR queues and something else. After I get in the first queue, I get insta groups one after another. I'm playing all the time, if I have to requeue I would lose around half of my playtime in queues. So again, you have to allow them to queue for everything. What you can do is disable being able to queue at cities.

But then what you want is people asking themselves do I really need to queue to an instance to have fun or is better for me to go to Zone X and spend my time there. Right now there is no doubt, queues offer the better reward and better content.

[Not Againnn]

Here's an idea, similar to what I've seen about the "Garrison Outposts" in each zone.

You queue for an instance/LFR/whatever. When the queue pops, you run to the nearest "Meeting Area". There is one in every zone, so you are free to go about questing/whatever while you wait. The meeting area is similar to an instance portal for everything. You go in, and are ported to a instance specific 'waiting area' which provides reforging, repair, reagents, and quests pertinent to the instance/place you're about to go. Think of it like the tiny rooms before bosses in Megaman. Each BG, Instance, Raid, has it's own personal 'waiting area', and you'll meet up with your members of the group before actually entering the instance.

Quick and easy, doesn't interrupt, but still gives a meeting point and a sense of 'going there', as well as cutting down on 'oh I need to _____ first' delays.

it just creates

i need to go to the meeting zone and then repair and reforge >.>

[chazus]

it just creates
i need to go to the meeting zone and then repair and reforge >.>

True, but something within the zone... is a pretty minimal downtime (one minute? Two, tops?) and still have a sort of inclusion aspect. Its a tradeoff of what's important.

If people are totally happy (which it seems some aren't) with 'queue, click, intance', then there's no point. But for others...

Maybe an incentive. Give a 5% damage/heal buff for those using the Meeting Area entrance.

[Didacticus Syntacticus]

Being FORCED to do ANYTHING in this game is wrong. But, we should give it a try. I really think it could give us all a bigger perspective on the world of Azeroth. No more flying over it or rushing through it. We can all spend time together, out in the world, on the ground, interacting.

I don't see why I should be forced to do nothing instead of my current situation where I am generally always doing SOMETHING other than "hanging out, waiting."