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  1. #1

    Warlock Challenge Mode discussion

    I want to get a discussion going about challenge modes for the Warlock class. I am aiming to do this very soon and I need some info. Best spec, gear selections, strats, etc.

    Can anyone offer me some advice? Which spec is the best for this? GoSac? GoServ? Destro, Aff, Demo?

    Also, does the Legendary cloak scale down a lot when you do this?

  2. #2
    High Overlord Logiks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    I want to get a discussion going about challenge modes for the Warlock class. I am aiming to do this very soon and I need some info. Best spec, gear selections, strats, etc.

    Can anyone offer me some advice? Which spec is the best for this? GoSac? GoServ? Destro, Aff, Demo?

    Also, does the Legendary cloak scale down a lot when you do this?
    Destro is the God-king of warlock DPS specs for challenge modes. Fire and brimstone + Havoc CBs/Shadowburns... just nasty.

    As far as specific talents (incoming flame from warlock mains), I'd recommend GoSup for trash (use observer) and if you can manage switch to GoSac for bosses, then back to GoSup for trash. If you're gonna run with just one, GoSup is better overall (as GoSac doesnt affect Fire and Brimstone).

    As far as gearing goes, try to get as many sockets on your gear as possible (allowing you to stack stats of your preference) and itemize for mastery > haste > crit. Be sure you're 15% hit capped for CMs.

    I could try to explain the playstyle, but if you are familiar with the intricacies of destro warlock, I needn't take the time.

    Also, tier set bonuses and legendary cloak/gem procs DO NOT work in challenge modes.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by Logiks; 2014-05-30 at 07:34 AM. Reason: forgot

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  3. #3
    That's a very helpful post, thank you!

  4. #4
    docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0Ag-uECpuFYI1dEhQcU41N3B5b3d1Z1FqWGt5Wkl3R1E&f=true&noheader=true&gid=8
    ^BiS set for Destro CMs along with a few others. Mastery > Crit > Haste is actually the best in terms of real DPS as well.

    It's the Google Doc for BiS CM gear for several classes/specs.

  5. #5
    I would go with GoSac for trash packs. +15% dmg to shadowburn is not a joke.

  6. #6
    Recently I got 9/9 gold with some guys who have been selling runs, so they know them real well. I just used my normal set (I go with the regular meta gem), except for switching my trinks to relic of yu'lon and light of the cosmos (although honestly looking at its scaled stats I think KTT would actually be pretty damn good - multistrike gets scaled down to a 6% chance but the int proc is freaking double that of Light / Relic). Their tank didn't realize I was being "carried" at first actually since I was doing more dps than one of their regulars, on my first time through them.

    Insane durability and on-demand self heals, shadowfury, interrupt or last stand or dispel based on need (I found Sac to be the way to go - a few times the leader called for the Hunter to dismiss pet for when we'd take a shortcut, didn't want pet to path weird into the mobs we were skipping), insane CM dps ... Destro is a carry spec for CMs. If I specifically built a CM set and with the knowledge of the dungeons I have now having done them once, man, I could tear it up. Gonna try to convince my current guild to sell runs.
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  7. #7
    Destro will work extremely well for CMode. F&B is very strong on the many large trash packs, shadowburn execute to clean up adds and fuel Embers.. and it allows pooling or resources for Boss burst.

    Demo IMO has a better toolkit for AoE stuns and interrupts with Axe Toss and Carrion Swarm for some of the CModes where interrupts are a bit more important, and its AoE aint shabby either with HoG, Immo, Carrion, and felstorm. Demo also allows pooling of resources for boss burst, but can be a bit weaker for bosses once pooled fury is gone with such low haste/crit.

    I've never done as Aff, probably never would.

  8. #8
    demo is just as good, if not slightly better, at that ilvl, than destro ..... but has a much higher skill curve.

    Gear isn't nearly as important as execution. However if you're optimizing for realm firsts you'd actually prioritize crit over haste, so mastery > crit > haste .... but if you're just going for golds, just use your regular raid gear it's nbd.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Simple057's Avatar
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    Shadow fury will help out your tank alot
    Nixs

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Simple057 View Post
    Shadow fury will help out your tank alot
    This can't be stressed enough. When I ran for 9/9 gold, between the Shaman and I, we had several seconds of aoe stun for tricky packs.

    Warlock utility for CMs is insane. On Sha of whatever in Shado-Pan Monastery, the healer never had to dispel because I took care of myself with imp dispel on cd and twilight ward to soak the damage I took. For the rest of the time I had the pup sac'd for an extra interrupt. Healthstones are awesomesauce, too.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    This can't be stressed enough. When I ran for 9/9 gold, between the Shaman and I, we had several seconds of aoe stun for tricky packs.

    Warlock utility for CMs is insane. On Sha of whatever in Shado-Pan Monastery, the healer never had to dispel because I took care of myself with imp dispel on cd and twilight ward to soak the damage I took. For the rest of the time I had the pup sac'd for an extra interrupt. Healthstones are awesomesauce, too.
    Why would the healer be dispelling on Sha in SPM?
    I do agree though, sac is the way to go for CMs. You've got embers for days even at that ilvl because of all the shadowburning you can do and can enter most of bosses with 4 embers ready to go.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome Furtylol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    This can't be stressed enough. When I ran for 9/9 gold, between the Shaman and I, we had several seconds of aoe stun for tricky packs.

    Warlock utility for CMs is insane. On Sha of whatever in Shado-Pan Monastery, the healer never had to dispel because I took care of myself with imp dispel on cd and twilight ward to soak the damage I took. For the rest of the time I had the pup sac'd for an extra interrupt. Healthstones are awesomesauce, too.
    That's really, really, really not what you want to be doing. That debuff gives you a hefty damage increase, without which causes the boss to take significantly longer. Warlock utility is kind of meh; they actually bring superior damage to some of the most desirable classes but aside of healthstone/soulstone you don't really bring any useful buffs to the table.

    Destro is the God-king of warlock DPS specs for challenge modes. Fire and brimstone + Havoc CBs/Shadowburns... just nasty.

    As far as specific talents (incoming flame from warlock mains), I'd recommend GoSup for trash (use observer) and if you can manage switch to GoSac for bosses, then back to GoSup for trash. If you're gonna run with just one, GoSup is better overall (as GoSac doesnt affect Fire and Brimstone).

    As far as gearing goes, try to get as many sockets on your gear as possible (allowing you to stack stats of your preference) and itemize for mastery > haste > crit. Be sure you're 15% hit capped for CMs.

    I could try to explain the playstyle, but if you are familiar with the intricacies of destro warlock, I needn't take the time.

    Also, tier set bonuses and legendary cloak/gem procs DO NOT work in challenge modes.

    Good luck!
    This post is mostly incorrect. You're going to want to be playing GoSac for everything, using the Felhunter for the interrupt. GoSac doesn't affect FnB but it does affect Shadowburn and by extension, shadowburn havoc cleave, which is a massive part of your damage on a pack-to-pack basis. Do not use GoSup.

    You also want to itemize for Mastery > Crit > Haste, while gemming intellect. Always go for socket bonuses unless they are worthless, i.e. 60 hit on boots. You will have very little room for Mastery while gemming intellect, which means your second most important stat is Crit (you will have very little of this) to increase your ember generation and sustainability from pack to pack.

    As for hit cap, it is a personal choice whether or not you want to go for it or not. If you do lots of large pulls the value of hit is diminished, scaling inversely with the amount of aoe, for obvious reasons. The more cleave/single target you are doing, the more important hit is. I personally would recommend just getting hit cap if you're not sure.

    edit:

    demo is just as good, if not slightly better, at that ilvl, than destro ..... but has a much higher skill curve.
    This is also entirely incorrect. I get that you probably like the spec, but that's like saying holy is as good as disc "with a much higher skill curve".
    Last edited by Furtylol; 2014-06-09 at 01:58 PM.
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  13. #13
    #agree with Furty on pretty much every note. I'd wager to say that if you are able to manage your fury pooling before bosses Demo can be very good in certain CM but overall Destro will give you consistency (which is really want you want during CMs.

    I've personally done CMs as every spec in a variety of groups but if you're going for the buttclenching realm bests/us bests than you should be doing solely Destro.

  14. #14
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    On my lock i did some of the CMs as demo. I can't say I was especially good but the job was well done. Destro on the other hand can do awesome bursts while having great aoe too. Imagine that you have kept 3-4 embers from the last pack you pulled and go into a boss pop DS (and pot if available) and can ditch easily 4 huge CBs depending on your gear.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Furtylol View Post
    That's really, really, really not what you want to be doing. That debuff gives you a hefty damage increase, without which causes the boss to take significantly longer. Warlock utility is kind of meh; they actually bring superior damage to some of the most desirable classes but aside of healthstone/soulstone you don't really bring any useful buffs to the table.
    I'd never run it before so I did what they asked of me: I waited until 3 stacks then dispelled on CD to stay at 2. Group said it was the quickest Sha kill they'd ever done in their dozens of 9/9 gold clears.

    You know, I'm checking the dungeon journal now - I could have swore the debuff did shadow damage. I'm not even sure I'm talking about the right boss anymore. I mean, yes, it was the Sha boss in SPM but I'm not seeing any evidence it behaved like I thought it did. But I do know the healer told me to start dispelling at 3 stacks, and they said it was their fastest Sha CM kill. wtf am I missing here ?
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  16. #16
    Mechagnome Furtylol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    I'd never run it before so I did what they asked of me: I waited until 3 stacks then dispelled on CD to stay at 2. Group said it was the quickest Sha kill they'd ever done in their dozens of 9/9 gold clears.

    You know, I'm checking the dungeon journal now - I could have swore the debuff did shadow damage. I'm not even sure I'm talking about the right boss anymore. I mean, yes, it was the Sha boss in SPM but I'm not seeing any evidence it behaved like I thought it did. But I do know the healer told me to start dispelling at 3 stacks, and they said it was their fastest Sha CM kill. wtf am I missing here ?
    Destructive Influence

    It does do shadow damage but it's extremely mild with a competent healer ... once you get up to like 7 stacks or so the boss basically falls over
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Furtylol View Post
    Destructive Influence

    It does do shadow damage but it's extremely mild with a competent healer ... once you get up to like 7 stacks or so the boss basically falls over
    Awesome, thanks. Couldn't find that anywhere on the dungeon journal or WoWHead
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  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Bathory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logiks View Post
    Destro is the God-king of warlock DPS specs for challenge modes. Fire and brimstone + Havoc CBs/Shadowburns... just nasty.

    As far as specific talents (incoming flame from warlock mains), I'd recommend GoSup for trash (use observer) and if you can manage switch to GoSac for bosses, then back to GoSup for trash. If you're gonna run with just one, GoSup is better overall (as GoSac doesnt affect Fire and Brimstone).

    As far as gearing goes, try to get as many sockets on your gear as possible (allowing you to stack stats of your preference) and itemize for mastery > haste > crit. Be sure you're 15% hit capped for CMs.

    I could try to explain the playstyle, but if you are familiar with the intricacies of destro warlock, I needn't take the time.

    Also, tier set bonuses and legendary cloak/gem procs DO NOT work in challenge modes.

    Good luck!
    This is pretty much exactly what I did for my goldx9. Fire and brimstone is devastating, in a good way. Shadow fury for stuns, as you should be rotating stuns depending on trash or whenever it's up (depending on your group)

    Watch vids, flask, food buff. All that good stuff etc etc.

    Good luck!
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Guns View Post
    I want to get a discussion going about challenge modes for the Warlock class. I am aiming to do this very soon and I need some info. Best spec, gear selections, strats, etc.

    Can anyone offer me some advice? Which spec is the best for this? GoSac? GoServ? Destro, Aff, Demo?

    Also, does the Legendary cloak scale down a lot when you do this?
    1) Destro. Apparently Demo used to be viable but not anymore due to rebalancing early in MoP. But you could probably get away with the other specs if you really wanted to and the group was okay with it, it's just that Destro's AoE is hard to say no to and looks so sexy

    2) GoSac, simply because not having a pet means no pets accidentally pulling during an invis run or running down the ramp to Gekkan etc. If you really want to the other Grimoires work just fine, I've seen people using pets in plenty of runs. GoSac just means one less thing to manage.

    3) Legendary scales down like anything else, proc doesn't work, however it has nice sockets. Not exactly sure how the scaling works on the three stats (I've noticed that gear with only 1 secondary stat doesn't scale properly) but safe to say the cloak is a strong choice for CMs if not BiS. Just remember to change out your helm for a regular meta gem.

    Also, if possible get gear with as many sockets as possible, ToT weapons are good because they have one socket plus the one from the Eye of the Black Prince (only legendary reward that works)

    Most important things as a lock: always have RoF up for AoE pulls (90% of CMs), use Havoc with CB/Shadowburn where you can, and of course Shadowfury is the absolute shit (for best results coordinate a stun rotation with your party). Don't be afraid to drop an Infernal on some of the harder trash packs for the AoE stun as much as the damage. Also, your pet (sacced or otherwise) should be a Felhunter for the interrupt most of the time. Interrupts are important! Oh and Soul Leech is OP as fuck. Can eat AoE that lesser mortals need CDs for :P

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Furtylol View Post
    Destructive Influence

    It does do shadow damage but it's extremely mild with a competent healer ... once you get up to like 7 stacks or so the boss basically falls over
    Only down side of that strat is people sometimes die after boss is dead because healer forgets about dispels :P
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  20. #20
    What trinket is the best trinket to pair relic of yu'lon with for non alchemists?

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