Is Siege of Orgrimmar REALLY that hard?

[PrairieChicken]

I am glad we have twitch.

The message board is full with "LoL, I do 200k dps with green gear. L2P" and "My 'casual' guild clear heroic SoO in 2 hours."

Can't wait for tears of the prideful raiders!

[Dangg]

theres pretty much no enrage timers for normal so i dont see this being a problem. kite the garrosh adds to hell and back if u want. doesnt matter anyway

Yeah, right.
Other than Immerseus, Fallen Protectors, Norushen, Iron Juggernaut, Malkrok, Spoils, Thok.... and every other boss where if you don't meet certain DPS checks you get overrun by adds or gradual more dmg.

[Deleted]

Won't be doable for sure in 471 gear, mabye you'd get a bit down in 496 but I don't think you'd kill garrosh in it. Good luck anyway

[Goretex]

Gonna be funny watching you guys trying to kill that trash after norushen if you guys get that far lol. I highly doubt you guys will clear it with ilvl 471 but I hope you guys do. GL to you guys.

[Deleted]

im curious if u even can get pass norushen with 471 - no offense

[Cantor]

I'll be up for trying this, but can't make the June 28th date. If there's one thought about in the future, I'll try to sort out a set of dungeon blues and Timeless gear; 12/14H Feral/Guardian Druid.

[Soulzar]

The fact that you think it's actually possible to clear normal SoO in < 496ilvl just shows your lack of understanding of game mechanics.

Lol, yes... 14/14H raiders clearly lack understanding of Game mechanics. It may be over ambitious.. but its not due to lack of understanding of the game

[PrairieChicken]

Lol, yes... 14/14H raiders clearly lack understanding of Game mechanics. It may be over ambitious.. but its not due to lack of understanding of the game

If they really think they can do anything with 471 gear then they are clearly not understanding the game mechanics. They might know how to play their class and perform mechanics but they don't seem to understand mathematics behind these.

[xenogear3]

Lol, yes... 14/14H raiders clearly lack understanding of Game mechanics. It may be over ambitious.. but its not due to lack of understanding of the game

They don't have to.
The game is a lot easier when all 25 people min/max.

This is why Heroic raiders claimed that they are "forced" to run LFR or do daily for gear.
Gear > Skill.

When they don't have the gear, we will see ....

[Deleted]

This is why Heroic raiders claimed that they are "forced" to run LFR or do daily for gear.
Gear > Skill.

Wrong. It's because Gear + Skill is EVEN BETTER than only one of those.

The OP says that they will use timeless 496 gear as a backup and to be honest they will most likely have to revert to that gear just to down the first boss.

If any boss dies with 471 it is the first one. No more will even be close. No chance. Healing numbers on even the second boss (with no real lull in damage) are far too high and regen is far too low. They won't even make it to the berserk (which they would hit above 40% health). Dps will be a maximum of 80k single target for most classes and sustained healing numbers probably won't even be able to hit 70k. You need nearly double of that if you wish to succeed.

Itemlevel 496 however sounds slightly more plausible. I'd guess that Norushen might be possible with perfect play, but I doubt that this pick-up-group would be able to do it. The idea sounds cool, but the effect of gear is being seriously underestimated.

[IsrafaelMage]

Immerseus and protectors should be doable at 500-ish ilvl (i think we did Immerseus back in November on alts with no gear), but i really doubt you can manage it at 471.. DPS might be enough to kill immerseus and protectors (especially with good ST/cleave specs), but it will be borderline impossible for healers. No meta, things like garrote ticking for 60k each second - this will either drain them fast or make people die slowly. I'm speaking from 10-man perspective of course, it may be reversed for 25-man. I personally had to tank Juggy at 509 ilvl with no meta at start of SoO - it is perfectly doable even with rusty skills and no actual experience, but it was still very taxing for 540-ish healers.

[Ampere]

I find this project amusing, but I don't think you'll get past Immerseus with 471 ilevel. I'd estimate that dps at that item level is probably ~80k sustained with optimal raid buffs. Immerseus has a 10 minute enrage.

Good luck, but I think you should try clearing flex in blues before deciding to do normal in blues.

[xenogear3]

Good luck, but I think you should try clearing flex in blues before deciding to do normal in blues.

That lost the main purpose.

There are lots of posts make fun of LFR. Now LFR will lose tier bonus.

Should not they attack Flex next?
No, this elite skips that and attacks normal "raiders" directly.

If he clears normal with 471, I suggest to remove normal gear's tier bonus as well.

[Libertarian]

Better hope your healing team is 3 disc priests

[Dracodraco]

Better hope your healing team is 3 disc priests

Discs are woefully bad at such low gear levels. They're powerfull because of *scaling*. You'd actually want mistweaver(s) if you were to go like this, because their infinite mana takes effect at a very, very low gear level (the 483 I boosted already made more mana tea than I could use), allowing them to skip spirit.

[NickCageFanatic]

That lost the main purpose.

There are lots of posts make fun of LFR. Now LFR will lose tier bonus.

Should not they attack Flex next?
No, this elite skips that and attacks normal "raiders" directly.

If he clears normal with 471, I suggest to remove normal gear's tier bonus as well.

Normal mode tier gear will be here to stay now and forever regardless of how many times this group wipes. They aren't going to go 14/14 with 471 iLevel, they will wipe on Immerseus a bunch of times before being forced to switch to their Timeless gear in which they will get all the way to the 2nd half of SoO before running into dps checks they cannot reach.

I understand that people back in Wrath did Ulduar in blue gear but people need to remember the Item Squish, and why it's happening. Gear allows stats to inflate not Linearly but Exponentially. So comparing the gear curve in Wrath of the Lich King is not at all the same as comparing it from ToT normal gear to SoO normal gear. Don't believe me? Put on nothing but 522 gear and check your dps, and then switch to 553 gear from SoO and watch those numbers skyrocket.

The gear curve has reached the absolute worst, so bad that dps and healers hp actually matter because raid wide damage abilities hit so hard in SoO. You never had this issue in Cata, Wrath, or TBC...now if a dps joins up undergeared they are in serious danger of going down too quickly. Such will be the case x 25 when walking into SoO with a 471 ilevel.

[Zylos]

Yes, it seems like quite the phenomenon that people remember like 20k or even 30k during their ICC progression. If you had decent gear and skill you were able to get 9 - 11k without the buff, but that was rarely to be seen. Most came in 10 - 12k with buff - much like you could end a single target fight with 500 - 600k today but most numbers will probably hover around 350 - 450k.

Those numbers are too low. I have a screenshot of myself in ICC with recount up doing 9.7k dps on festergut while wearing ToC gear and I'm 4th on the meter. No buff is present which you can also see in the SS.

[Notdev]

Immerseus is a joke and will likely be doable - unless the enrage becomes an issue.
Protectors, IMO, will be like doing a difficult hardmode. All the things that are meaningless in 550+ will be a huge deal with 471 gear. Very difficult but maybe possible if enrage doesn't kill you.
Norushen will not be doable in 471 gear. I'd be willing to wager you need a good deal more than that, close to 500 ilvl or even higher to ever do normal Norushen, no matter how skilled you are.

Normal SoO was balanced around what, 522-530-ish ilvl? You're underestimating the sheer power of 50+ ilvls. Not sure the best of the best could overcome that with skill. Seeing how far you can get in 496 timeless gear would be a better experiment IMO.

Good luck, though. Safe bet would be this group would not pass Norushen but I wouldn't be too certain about killing Protectors. Prove me wrong!

[Clrg]

Why dont make this more realistic and try with 496 gear? people are talking about iron, thok, and i doubt they kill protectors.

[Helwinter]

Good luck guys. I'm keen to see where you get to.