Education v Intelligence

[Arlon]

What makes you say that those traits are unexplored in the literature? They've all been studied and they all plainly do have an outcome on life outcomes. That doesn't suggest that generalizable intelligence doesn't have a substantial effect or that it isn't a limiting factor.

I meant largely unexplored. I would like concrete data on how/why/when. There are a dozen of papers on such subjects even in Finland, but a few that i have written a report about is mostly extrapolated to the point of all you can say about it is "yeah, it matters". And social policy is then crafted on half-assed research.

Im not debating the substantial effect, but... My IQ tests were never spectacular, mostly 100+. I was very mediocre in class during primary and completely goofed at high-school. Yet, i managed to get into engineering and passed the needed courses for the first year(Math, physics, research) after which i switched to med-school. Granted, statistics may say otherwise, but here i was doing better than many people who i considered(and still consider) to be better than me at logic and pattern recognition. Just what is this limiting factor, how do you measure it as more than a guideline unless in extreme cases?

[Fortera]

I've lived by education =/= intelligence for a decade. I've seen so many educated people in my personal life do and say stupid things in a regular basis enough times that I eventually decided for myself that true intelligence comes in the form of wisdom. Anybody can educate themselves but no text book can teach you basic human sense. You have to learn morality and class from life, not from a book about science or math. I've seen college graduates sit on a couch, ask everyone in the room to raise their hand if they've been to college (only he did) and then proceed to eat at backwoods asian food places, call his girlfriend fat constantly thinking that women don't leave you unless you cheat on them and so many many more stupid fucking things I don't even want to get into on here.

I've heard people who are currently going to college to be DOCTORS... say that corn has zero nutritional value and is just filler, when, in fact, corn has vitamins in it that promote eye health. I've heard that same person propagate misinformation constantly about your health on a daily basis but she is the smartest dumb person in her family so everyone believes what she says, and before I know it, everyone of the people I'm surrounded by is repeating every dumb fucking thing she's ever said so that then there isn't one truthful word coming out of anyone's mouths.

Anyone can go to a class, memorize a text book answer and replicate it on a test. Wisdom does not come from that.

[Spectral]

Anyone can go to a class, memorize a text book answer and replicate it on a test.

If this is true, why would anyone choose to not to? Earnings potential is increased significantly by it, jobs that require college education are generally less physically taxing and have great self-reported satisfaction rates. So if it's not a big deal at all and everyone can do it, what's it say about the people that elect not to?

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I meant largely unexplored. I would like concrete data on how/why/when. There are a dozen of papers on such subjects even in Finland, but a few that i have written a report about is mostly extrapolated to the point of all you can say about it is "yeah, it matters". And social policy is then crafted on half-assed research.

Well, yeah, it's hard to tease out much more than, "yeah, it matters". I don't think we'd be in a better place if we produced more precise numbers that weren't really all that legitimate.

Im not debating the substantial effect, but... My IQ tests were never spectacular, mostly 100+. I was very mediocre in class during primary and completely goofed at high-school. Yet, i managed to get into engineering and passed the needed courses for the first year(Math, physics, research) after which i switched to med-school. Granted, statistics may say otherwise, but here i was doing better than many people who i considered(and still consider) to be better than me at logic and pattern recognition. Just what is this limiting factor, how do you measure it as more than a guideline unless in extreme cases?

Testing out above 100 already shows above average ability. Individual variation is sufficient that it shouldn't be much of a surprise if an individual succeeds with above average, but unspectacular talent. What would be surprising is if we could find some population cohort that as a group was succeeding academically in spite of seemingly low talent. To the best of my knowledge, no such cohort has been found.

[haxartus]

What parts of the education system requires intelligence ?

[Elegiac]

What parts of the education system requires intelligence ?

The part where intelligence is a measure of ability to learn new information.

[Tseol]

Sounds like it's a matter of charisma, which affects how introverted or extroverted you are, which in turn affects how you get whats on your mind out to people in a way that attracts their attention.

While it's largely unrelated to the topic, I reject the idea that you have to be an extrovert to be charismatic, or vice versa. You can be an extrovert without being charismatic - I know many extroverts that are just loud instead. To the latter part of your post, I also know plenty of quieter introverts who are able to very eloquently express themselves and their ideas.

[Deleted]

Why bother to separate the two?

An intelligent person will get educated, and an educated will be intelligent where needed to fulfil their goals. Also the separation, if we must perform one, is obvious. Intelligence is a passive trait, whilst education is an actionable part of agency.

[Tseol]

If this is true, why would anyone choose to not to? Earnings potential is increased significantly by it, jobs that require college education are generally less physically taxing and have great self-reported satisfaction rates. So if it's not a big deal at all and everyone can do it, what's it say about the people that elect not to?

Anyone can do it. One may choose not to for many reasons - unwilling to put up with the difficulty, unable or unwilling to pay, lack of interest in the job opportunities it opens up, etc.

I was able to go through most of my university education (Computer Science) with decent grades either A, without studying, or B, without showing up for class, in a given semester. Most people can get by with just going to class and studying a little bit. I believe that almost everyone could get a four-year degree of some description, particularly if it matched their skills and interests, if they attended class, paid attention, and studied a lot. Regardless of intelligence. Given how lazy I was, I have trouble believing that I accomplished something that other people literally could not.