WoD Beta Destruction Discussion

[Phenax]

Went destro tonight, was the first time playing the spec on most fights for a few months and I did almost zero testing on it in beta (was really hoping for a tier where demo was top-tier).

I don't see how they can allow a spec to be so immobile for WoD when there's so much movement in the T17 encounters. Only having a couple globals for movement is absolutely laughable. Thankfully everything died in about a minute and the ground effects did so little damage I basically turreted even if I was failing a mechanic. I really hope a "fel flame"-esque ability comes back in WoD, with how Celestalon is doing though I think it may take a few more expansions.

Other than that and RoF on single target the spec only felt a *little* bit worse than what it did before. My damage output was across the boards better than for demo last week, minus the fights that actually are better with longer killtimes like immerseus (definitely confounded with our faster killtimes). Because we actually have a decent spec for low-movement fights I expect a 20% blanket nerf from Celery before next week though.

[Caides]

Went destro tonight, was the first time playing the spec on most fights for a few months and I did almost zero testing on it in beta (was really hoping for a tier where demo was top-tier).

I don't see how they can allow a spec to be so immobile for WoD when there's so much movement in the T17 encounters. Only having a couple globals for movement is absolutely laughable. Thankfully everything died in about a minute and the ground effects did so little damage I basically turreted even if I was failing a mechanic. I really hope a "fel flame"-esque ability comes back in WoD, with how Celestalon is doing though I think it may take a few more expansions.

Other than that and RoF on single target the spec only felt a *little* bit worse than what it did before. My damage output was across the boards better than for demo last week, minus the fights that actually are better with longer killtimes like immerseus (definitely confounded with our faster killtimes). Because we actually have a decent spec for low-movement fights I expect a 20% blanket nerf from Celery before next week though.

Nah it's perfectly fine for Destro to be borderline broken because it's not Demo. /eyeroll
Blizzard has been extremely touchy with Demo since ToT ended. Demo is either really, really good. Or it's really, really bad. They can't find a balance between the two.

I don't see any fel flame type spell coming back any time soon. Definitely not in WoD because that would mean every class that lost something like it would have to get it back. Destro has a huge mobility issue, though.

[Zynx]

Honestly I picked up Destro for the first time tonight, and I have to say I didn't feel like it was that bad. It felt crappy to have nothing to do past 1-2 GCDs moving sure, but my damage didn't really suffer too bad with planning and smart play.

The gameplay is definitely not a good feel though.

[Zoldor]

Honestly I picked up Destro for the first time tonight, and I have to say I didn't feel like it was that bad. It felt crappy to have nothing to do past 1-2 GCDs moving sure, but my damage didn't really suffer too bad with planning and smart play.

The gameplay is definitely not a good feel though.

Wait until you get unlucky with a mechanic. If everyone is moving or dodging you don't notice the damage loss that much, but you get a double move mechanic you dps will freefall. Say Thok chases you twice in a row, you get double lazer beam in Seigecrafter things like that. Hopefully it won't be that damning but I'm starting to think if a fight isn't patchwork Affliction is going to slowly creep passed Destro in a live situation in WoD based on movement and RNG.

[Werst]

Destro in 6.0 does do damage it just is a simcraft darling more than a real world spec. Which is probably why it hasn't been nerfed at 90...and its meh performance at 100 doesn't make it any more viable. You seem to be nearly forced into charred remains which hyper inflates mastery. Trying to pve as destro is like trying to pvp as destro in 5.4 which is to say you have these shiny spells but don't get to use them when you want/need to (in a nutshell TLDR). I don't get the shadowburn mana return removal? How was that even possibly a gain or needed removing in any facet of the game? Why make an execute spell that is a loss to use? If you can't sustain your rotation it IS a loss, just like demo's mana cost vs the glyph of lifetap that hurts and oom's you. I don't care what the blizz "sees". They certainly can't come up with an explanation.

Tossing numbers out for a second I'm pretty sure most locks don't find destro's turret play much "fun". I probably wouldn't use it to level outside of instances. Its just not a fun thing especially when lock mobility isn't so great. You can only preset or preplan your movement tools (compared to blink/disengage/etc) which makes them inherently weaker than the ones that just work when you need them. That class issue combined with destro's lack of mobility just isn't that fun to play. A min/maxer might be forced into it and LFR people copy the big dogs but its not something that will keep a person playing the game. Nobody who knows better will say "destro is fun". /shrug apathetic or rushed patch/expac despite spending forever in SoO.

[Deleted]

afaik charred remains is a very very very small gain, if it is even a gain at this point with the recent nerf to it, actually think demonic servitude is the way to go atm. a 60% dmg reduction to the fillers is really too much with the reduction to its ember generation.

i just wish blizz would actually look and respond to our valid feedback and issues, rather than ignore them, most of the time, the issues we have with abilities and items turn out to be correct, how many times in the past have players not raised a point that was ignored and then later on changed and nerfed to the ground(UVLS). destro need some movement dps, fel flame would be a nice addition and the class as a whole need some utility, preferably some stackable raid utility like the rogue's smoke bomb, the hunter's aspect of the fox and the mage's amplify magic(or w/e their healing buff is called), if we dont get that then locks need to bring the dps.

[Werst]

Yeah I should probably reserve judgment on which talent combo's until 100, you are right Almara. I don't trust the simc's APL's just yet. Even then it ignores the fight mechanic issues. How hard does destro damage fall off in helter skelter vs aff or demo?

I'm expecting there to be no set answer with talents more on a fight by fight basis. Some of those fights the change may include "go aff" but that will depend on your gear somewhat. With all the dot hardcasting aff does I just don't see it doing well without haste as at least equal to your mastery just to keep dot uptimes where they need to be. Sort of like the UA glyph in pve. In a vacuum of simc it is worthless but in the "can I finish this cast before I have to move" it becomes meaningful fast with our new turrety ranged playstyle.

I wish blizz would actually have the same rapidity to fixing bugs, issues, and over nerfs that it has for nerfing things. Also if their public face were a bit less flippant or arrogant wouldn't hurt. Keep in mind some of us may have raided with you in the past and know you are just a dude. Even as smart as you think you are or what hidden tools you may or may not have, the community is vast and made up of some very bright people. Not as an insult per se but part of being smart is knowing when to listen, when someone MAY be onto something, and to make amends as quickly as you make mistakes.

Honestly I wish they would just remove gateway, give us a mobility buff to at least destro if not aff too, and have that lvl 87 skill be our raid utility CD.

[Deleted]

yeah, the gateway seem pretty pointless atm and ive long wished for some stackable raid utility like the other pure dps classes has, there are plenty of options from offensive to defensive options like temporary hp boosts, shields or minor buffs to crit/haste or mastery based on your dark soul or a raid utility that makes a demonic mirror image, giving you a minor hps/dps boost for its duration.

[Baconeggcheese]

Honestly I picked up Destro for the first time tonight, and I have to say I didn't feel like it was that bad. It felt crappy to have nothing to do past 1-2 GCDs moving sure, but my damage didn't really suffer too bad with planning and smart play.

Been trying to tell people this for months ><

[Brusalk]

Been trying to tell people this for months ><

Have people been arguing that Destro's damage was going to suck for light, occasional movement? I haven't. It just sucks not being able to do anything and just running around.

[Baconeggcheese]

Have people been arguing that Destro's damage was going to suck for light, occasional movement? I haven't. It just sucks not being able to do anything and just running around.

People have argued a lot of things, you realize you're on mmochamp right?

[Gaidax]

Have people been arguing that Destro's damage was going to suck for light, occasional movement? I haven't. It just sucks not being able to do anything and just running around.

Well, as I was saying for months now, we are pretty much back to the same thing as it ever was. People just need to re-learn to position properly and plan movement, without running around like a bunch of headless chicken when it is not absolutely necessary. In reality there is not that much unavoidable/unpredictable movement around and even then, the new KJC can help a lot there and it is still the best talent to take at that tier realistically.

I am pretty happy with current state of affairs, because all the stuff that makes Destruction damn good has remained. I expected AoE being screwed, or Havoc/Shadowburn getting nerfed or survivability gimped, but in the end it was DPS while on the move and I can live with it, because I already lived with it just fine for years before MoP.

I am pretty confident that Destruction will still be frikkin' powerful at 100 once people learn2play again instead of rolling their faces over the keyboard while running all the time.

[Kalshen]

The loss of casting while moving kinda sucks I loved hopping and dpsn just to piss off our mage lol glad we are put back in line tho

[Novx]

The loss of casting while moving kinda sucks I loved hopping and dpsn just to piss off our mage lol glad we are put back in line tho

Define "put back in line"....Destro wasn't like 40% above everyone else this tier and our ability to cast filler spells wasn't exactly uber-op. If by "put back in line" you mean they removed every tiny bit of movement dps we have while also making us middle of the pack....yes, they "put us back in line".

[Rayaleith]

People have argued a lot of things, you realize you're on mmochamp right?

Easy boy. mmochamp too bad for you and yet 1.7K posts? Too good for these forums. Oh wait, elitism our of nothing. Typical mmochamp forums :P

[Kalshen]

I ment being able to do full dps while moving. Like pre 5.4 that was out of line. Not our damage.

[Fenzha]

Glyph of Ember Tap was causing Ember Tap to heal for more than intended. Additionally, the glyph now increases the healing of Ember Tap by 2% (down from 5%).

[Deleted]

Define "put back in line"....Destro wasn't like 40% above everyone else this tier and our ability to cast filler spells wasn't exactly uber-op. If by "put back in line" you mean they removed every tiny bit of movement dps we have while also making us middle of the pack....yes, they "put us back in line".

yeah, destro's movement dps is way too low, and prolly the lowest of all ranged dps. i just cant comprehend blizz' logic, i can understand they dont want ranged to do too much dps while moving but if a spec has such a low amount of dps while moving as destro has, then shouldnt it have an increased amount of ST to compensate? ofc i can see this increasing destro's aoe/cleaving as well, but the increased aoe is easily fixed by reducing FnB's modifier accordingly. blizz is far from done with the balancing of classes.

[Novx]

yeah, destro's movement dps is way too low, and prolly the lowest of all ranged dps. i just cant comprehend blizz' logic, i can understand they dont want ranged to do too much dps while moving but if a spec has such a low amount of dps while moving as destro has, then shouldnt it have an increased amount of ST to compensate? ofc i can see this increasing destro's aoe/cleaving as well, but the increased aoe is easily fixed by reducing FnB's modifier accordingly. blizz is far from done with the balancing of classes.

The way to fix Destro: give us Fel Flame.

Pros: Instant direct damage cast that can be used on the move
Cons: High Mana cost (not spammable, especailly @ low gear levels), trivial damage (acceptable due to instant/direct dmg/movement)

Same can be said for Affliction. There was no legitimate reason to remove Fel Flame from the game. We keep hearing "class balancing isn't done!" yet this has been a huge point that has been brought up numerous times by warlocks of all skill and experience levels in PvE and PvP yet has been completely ignored. I doubt that they will ignore our pleas for 4+ months and then suddenly go "oh yeah, let's add fel flame back!".

[Trimshadow]

The problem is - Tom Chilton is back in charge - he has always been erratic, petty and volatile - when 'HE' decides something is to be nerfed... it's completely 'to the ground' - Celestalol is just his bitch (and just as annoying)...

I would be happy to see KJC with 3x 8sec charges - or a number of other things (like fel flame) that would give some level of mobility back, or even a KJC that only lets you cast Incinerate on the move...something... the current iteration of changes were completely over-board (locks and shaman, right now are being treated the way Ret used to be)...

Unfortunately I do not see any changes to fix the current situation with in the first 2 patches after WoD release