WoD Beta Destruction Discussion

[xskarma]

Restoration Warlocks plz

We allready had that spec, but they are taking it away.

[Nerraw]

Blizzard giveth, and Blizzard taketh away.

[Deleted]

Blizzard giveth, and Blizzard taketh away.

R.I.P DA
R.I.P health funnel destro

[Santoisms]

I still like Destro on heavy cleave fights. Testing "Iron Assembly" LFR I'm wrecking with Destro on Beastlord and Operator. 35-45k usual on both, tons of opportunities for Havoc + SB and Cata every DS is really nice.

[Novx]

I still like Destro on heavy cleave fights. Testing "Iron Assembly" LFR I'm wrecking with Destro on Beastlord and Operator. 35-45k usual on both, tons of opportunities for Havoc + SB and Cata every DS is really nice.

Yeah but the problem is on any fight that isn't heavy AoE you are going to be severely lacking as Destruction. Having a spec that only does AoE is just sort of silly.

[Marema]

OT but sorry since I just noticed the sig.

xkarma - you're team got /roflestomped. Wow!

okay back on topic. Anybody know if they're going to allow PTR copies again? I've been raiding on my lock last few weeks and I will most likely carry it over into WoD and wanted to get some hands on testing before 6.0

[xskarma]

OT but sorry since I just noticed the sig.

xkarma - you're team got /roflestomped. Wow!

Hey, I come here to forget the misery not be reminded of it.

okay back on topic. Anybody know if they're going to allow PTR copies again? I've been raiding on my lock last few weeks and I will most likely carry it over into WoD and wanted to get some hands on testing before 6.0

I'm not sure what the question is. PTR is up and running so you should be able to test whatever you wish. If you mean that Character copy has been down there then I don't know. There's always pre-mades to test with, I guess, even if that's not 100% the same thing. You do know that char copy now works from inside the game and not through the forums anymore, right? (or does so on Beta not 100% sure if it's the same for PTR)

[Santoisms]

Yeah but the problem is on any fight that isn't heavy AoE you are going to be severely lacking as Destruction. Having a spec that only does AoE is just sort of silly.

I'm just making the point that it is more of a niche spec now then a spec where you could make an argument for it on every encounter.

[Novx]

I'm just making the point that it is more of a niche spec now then a spec where you could make an argument for it on every encounter.

I get that but in my eyes that is a very flawed design. You shouldn't have a spec that is only good at AoE and keeps up with tanks on single target. Similarly to how Destruction is currently on live where we are one of the top AoE dps (if not the top) and while our single target is by no means the best (for our specific class spec choices or in general over multiple classes) it still does a respectable amount so that is considered viable and competitive. Yes, we should take a hit on the spec because of its AoE versatility but at the same time barely out dpsing a tank in single target while also being arguably the least mobile caster spec in the game is just poor spec/class design.

Example: Affliction is obviously the "top dog" spec on live yet Destro is still competitive. There are specific fights where destro (at least speaking in terms of on progression and in my opinion) beats out affliction (not just based on DPS but based on the overall spec design) such as on Garrosh, Siegecrafter, or Galakras. Now just because Destro is specifically good on these fights doesn't mean it is suddenly terrible on the others. When you look at Destro in WoD we aren't going to use the spec outside of a few specific fights, such as those that you mentioned, and that is a problem. I am personally fine with playing any of the 3 warlock specs but to once again have a dead spec on the first tier (and for it to again be destro) is a tad silly in my opinion.

Keep in mind they are still tuning but based on current builds I just don't understand the direction they are going with the spec. It's a turret aoe spec which has no use outside of that.

We allready had that spec, but they are taking it away.

Clearly this is Jay Wilsons fault, write our congressmen/women/whatever canadians have!

[Santoisms]

I get that but in my eyes that is a very flawed design. You shouldn't have a spec that is only good at AoE and keeps up with tanks on single target. Similarly to how Destruction is currently on live where we are one of the top AoE dps (if not the top) and while our single target is by no means the best (for our specific class spec choices or in general over multiple classes) it still does a respectable amount so that is considered viable and competitive. Yes, we should take a hit on the spec because of its AoE versatility but at the same time barely out dpsing a tank in single target while also being arguably the least mobile caster spec in the game is just poor spec/class design.

Example: Affliction is obviously the "top dog" spec on live yet Destro is still competitive. There are specific fights where destro (at least speaking in terms of on progression and in my opinion) beats out affliction (not just based on DPS but based on the overall spec design) such as on Garrosh, Siegecrafter, or Galakras. Now just because Destro is specifically good on these fights doesn't mean it is suddenly terrible on the others. When you look at Destro in WoD we aren't going to use the spec outside of a few specific fights, such as those that you mentioned, and that is a problem. I am personally fine with playing any of the 3 warlock specs but to once again have a dead spec on the first tier (and for it to again be destro) is a tad silly in my opinion.

I wouldn't call it a dead spec because there are a huge amount of AoE or Havoc abusing fights that could out DPS Demo in T17. It does feel like a turret though, and it's single target isn't the best but that could be a tuning issue.

[Baconeggcheese]

I get that but in my eyes that is a very flawed design. You shouldn't have a spec that is only good at AoE and keeps up with tanks on single target.

I continue to be confused by this, every time I test destro single target is right there with the other 2 specs. Even these crappy simcraft models that aren't playing everything well are showing destro to be well above tanks.

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...d-9-29-14.html

So I'm really not sure where people are getting this notion.

When you look at Destro in WoD we aren't going to use the spec outside of a few specific fights, such as those that you mentioned, and that is a problem.

We probably aren't going to use the spec much if at all not because of its damage but because demonology just does *everything* so well that there really isn't a niche for destro to fill.

The only way we were gonna want to use such an immobile spec is if it was OP when it didn't have to move and it isn't, it's simply on par.

Clearly this is Jay Wilsons fault, write our congressmen/women/whatever canadians have!

I just saw that on the front page, isn't he the guy who royally fucked up d3? I'm scared.

[Deleted]

I'm just making the point that it is more of a niche spec now then a spec where you could make an argument for it on every encounter.

you can make an argument for it on every encounter

[Jessicka]

We probably aren't going to use the spec much if at all not because of its damage but because demonology just does *everything* so well that there really isn't a niche for destro to fill.

Interesting conclusion given how little has actually changed for the spec - other than replacing Fel Flame for mobility with sticking in melee for Hellfire - when it's so hard to find a niche for it in the current tier.

[Baconeggcheese]

Interesting conclusion given how little has actually changed for the spec - other than replacing Fel Flame for mobility with sticking in melee for Hellfire - when it's so hard to find a niche for it in the current tier.

Tuning happened, just like tuning is the reason it stopped being used in the current tier.

Set bonuses also happened.

[Jessicka]

Tuning happened, just like tuning is the reason it stopped being used in the current tier.

Set bonuses also happened.

Tuning isn't finished.

[Grizelda]

Tuning is never finished.

[Baconeggcheese]

Tuning is never finished.

^this

But seriously jess, don't hold your breath on anything changing considering how many tuning passes we've been through and our specs relative to one another are in the same place they started.

[gahddo]

I continue to be confused by this, every time I test destro single target is right there with the other 2 specs. Even these crappy simcraft models that aren't playing everything well are showing destro to be well above tanks.

http://downloads.simulationcraft.org...d-9-29-14.html

So I'm really not sure where people are getting this notion.



We probably aren't going to use the spec much if at all not because of its damage but because demonology just does *everything* so well that there really isn't a niche for destro to fill.

The only way we were gonna want to use such an immobile spec is if it was OP when it didn't have to move and it isn't, it's simply on par.



I just saw that on the front page, isn't he the guy who royally fucked up d3? I'm scared.

This is why I no longer post on these forums. People like you who blatantly attack simc without providing any proof, suggesting any changes, or even being intelligible.

[Novx]

This is why I no longer post on these forums. People like you who blatantly attack simc without providing any proof, suggesting any changes, or even being intelligible.

What are you talking about? Have you read any of his posts? On this thread as well as the Demonology thread he is quite active with class discussion...

[Marema]

I'm not sure what the question is. PTR is up and running so you should be able to test whatever you wish. If you mean that Character copy has been down there then I don't know. There's always pre-mades to test with, I guess, even if that's not 100% the same thing. You do know that char copy now works from inside the game and not through the forums anymore, right? (or does so on Beta not 100% sure if it's the same for PTR)

I actually did not know that. I went into my account management and something like "other services" and picked the copy character to PTR and it said it was under maintenance. It's been that way for a few days so wasn't sure. I'll log onto the game after work and try to copy the lock over. In my day's we did it via account management; kids have it easy these days!