Stat dev watercooler

[Txiv]

Now on the front page, it answered a question that had been bugging me for a while; how was readiness going to work in a world of max/min? I mean its effectiveness even at low amounts is very peak and valley for major cooldowns. Think about stacking it and getting arcane power down to 2 min cooldown at the beheast of other stats only to have your group be so good they down the boss in 3 mins. Now you lost out the entire benefit. I dunno it always confused me and im glad its shelved as a secondary but will pop up in smaller amounts later.

Versatility seems a bit boring if not strong. I could see it becoming the best stat at higher levels, will have to see how much raw stat=1 percent.

thoughts?

[Polarthief]

(Not sure if it'll be locked so we could just talk about it in the Alpha/Beta thread, so for now, I'll post my thoughts here)

I'm glad they scrapped Readiness because I feel like they were unable to fill it in for a few classes (e.g., us especially), and Versatility seems incredibly boring and lazy. It's going to be either way too good or way too undertuned and therefore, shit.

I'm also mad about minor stats being "randomly rolled" on gear, so you may need to get the same piece to get the minor stats. I know they're minor, but I feel like every piece should auto-have minor and be randomly rolled from there. Rolling for affixes on gear is more akin to Diablo and with loot having enough RNG in WoW already, do we really need the minor stats to be random and then randomly rolled? RNG upon RNG is NOT a good thing (see that healer trinket from Dragon Soul no one used because it had a chance to trigger off of crits)

[huth]

I'm also mad about minor stats being "randomly rolled" on gear, so you may need to get the same piece to get the minor stats. I know they're minor, but I feel like every piece should auto-have minor and be randomly rolled from there. Rolling for affixes on gear is more akin to Diablo and with loot having enough RNG in WoW already, do we really need the minor stats to be random and then randomly rolled? RNG upon RNG is NOT a good thing (see that healer trinket from Dragon Soul no one used because it had a chance to trigger off of crits)

That's kind of the point.

[Polarthief]

That's kind of the point.

But all it does is make a (potentially) fun stat very annoying and frustrating, exactly like D3. They also forget that D3 = you always get gear and WoW = you may get gear but probably won't. Big differences.

[Libretto]

Versatility will become the most valuable stat on gear by far IMHO. And it's boring. I don't know why they felt compelled to add that one. Not that readiness was any good since having major cooldowns reduced by weird percentage numbers would have been infuriating if your cooldowns lined up with trinkets or raid mechanics that came at intervals like 60 or 90 seconds.

[Polarthief]

Versatility will become the most valuable stat on gear by far IMHO. And it's boring. I don't know why they felt compelled to add that one. Not that readiness was any good since having major cooldowns reduced by weird percentage numbers would have been infuriating if your cooldowns lined up with trinkets or raid mechanics that came at intervals like 60 or 90 seconds.

It will be most or least valuable. It's either or.

[Libretto]

Depends how it scales. If it's multiplicative with existing stats, it'll be most valuable. Ie. 10% haste * 10% versatility giving 21% haste.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Depends how it scales. If it's multiplicative with existing stats, it'll be most valuable. Ie. 10% haste * 10% versatility giving 21% haste.

... You sure you didn't read Amplify? Versatility is a straight % damage mod.

[Libretto]

I read that wrong, you're right. Still, a % damage increase would potentially scale multiplicatively with other stats, especially as say arcane where your mastery is also a flat damage increase.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

I read that wrong, you're right. Still, a % damage increase would potentially scale multiplicatively with other stats, especially as say arcane where your mastery is also a flat damage increase.

Yeah, there's some issues that need to be addressed. But we don't know how much rating will be 1% gain. They could very easily make it 3/4 as good as any other stat.

[huth]

But all it does is make a (potentially) fun stat very annoying and frustrating, exactly like D3. They also forget that D3 = you always get gear and WoW = you may get gear but probably won't. Big differences.

They're supposed to be a bonus that is nice to have, but nothing to worry about if you don't get them.

It will be most or least valuable. It's either or.

What makes you so certain it won't be between the best and the worst?

[Keiyra]

But all it does is make a (potentially) fun stat very annoying and frustrating, exactly like D3. They also forget that D3 = you always get gear and WoW = you may get gear but probably won't. Big differences.

Right, and when you don't get gear, you try again next week...and the next week, and the next week.
It's their plan to extend the "acquiring loot" phase (in a terrible way, imo)

[Milkyz]

@People claiming WoD is Diablo in terms of loot:

Diablo Loot is fully randomized. All stats, except for Legendary affixes.
WoD Loot has a minor part of it's Bugdet Randomized.

For WoD to be comparable to Diablo, Primary & Secondary Stats (which are the large budget of any item) would be random as well. Which isn't the case.
For Diablo to be comparable to WoD, at least 3 Primary Stats would be preset (for Weapons i.e.: +Damage, +Damage%, Socket) + only 1 randomized stat. Secondary Stats (Gold Pick Up Radius, Bonus Exp) would be fully randomized.

tl;dr: It's a lot of stretching to say WoD Loot Design is Diablo Loot Design.

[Deleted]

Well i personally think that people are not actually saying that WoD loot design and D3 loot design are the same. Its more like that people are realizing that WoW loot is slowly going to transform in D3 loot design system, well maybe not that random as Diablo, because you can get loot only once a reset, but still quite simmilar and that sounds like a very very bad idea to most of the people.
The difference is only that Blizzard is trying ot do it slowly, bits by bits, and also maybe not as "wild" as D3 system, i actualy will not be that much surprised if after, lets say roughly 2 expansions, WoW and Diablo loot system become quite similar in attempt to stretch the "life" of the raid tiers/milk the subs few extra mount fees (name it as you wish)

[Florena]

Well i personally think that people are not actually saying that WoD loot design and D3 loot design are the same. Its more like that people are realizing that WoW loot is slowly going to transform in D3 loot design system, well maybe not that random as Diablo, because you can get loot only once a reset, but still quite simmilar and that sounds like a very very bad idea to most of the people.
The difference is only that Blizzard is trying ot do it slowly, bits by bits, and also maybe not as "wild" as D3 system, i actualy will not be that much surprised if after, lets say roughly 2 expansions, WoW and Diablo loot system become quite similar in attempt to stretch the "life" of the raid tiers/milk the subs few extra mount fees (name it as you wish)

I can understand people not wanting entirely random loot, I wouldn't want that, and I don't think blizz will ever go that far with it. As long as it's just the minor/tertiary stats I don't see a problem with it though and there's no reason to think that their next move is going to be randomizing secondaries on raid gear. That works well enough for say TI gear, but I don't see them ever doing that to dungeon/raid/pvp gear.

[Orrin]

Celestalon wrote that you'll need more rating to get 1% of vers then to get 1% of Crit, so no, it wont be the strongest stat

[Alroxas]

I can understand people not wanting entirely random loot, I wouldn't want that, and I don't think blizz will ever go that far with it. As long as it's just the minor/tertiary stats I don't see a problem with it though and there's no reason to think that their next move is going to be randomizing secondaries on raid gear. That works well enough for say TI gear, but I don't see them ever doing that to dungeon/raid/pvp gear.

Well the problem really comes from people who want to min/max to get the most utility out of their time. If we consider that Warforge > Non-WF and that X tertiary stat (socket, bonus armor, spirit, speed, etc.) > Y tertiary stat > no tertiary stats then having the "correct" extra stats is the best outcome which these people want.
Now since we know that the assignment of these extra stats on gear are randomized then the probability of the correct stats dropping is now a function of time spent running for that item. So in that way it does extend the "life" of the raid if you're going for specific sets.

The main problem is that unlike D3, the lockout system in WoW prevents excessive raid farming whereas I could run rifts all day in D3.

Celestalon wrote that you'll need more rating to get 1% of vers then to get 1% of Crit, so no, it wont be the strongest stat

Ouch, that really makes it unappealing to stack then but it does make sense since Vers provides 2 bonuses: 1% dmg gain and -0.5% dmg taken.

[Northem]

I'm glad they scrapped Readiness because I feel like they were unable to fill it in for a few classes (e.g., us especially)

I partially agree with you.

I am very sorry that "Readiness" has to disappear, since it was a stat certainly with much potential.

But you're right, the laziness and apathy of Blizzard prevent them to successfully apply good ideas. They always will opt for the easier way, and will throw away good ideas simply because it exists some complexity when it comes to implementing them, instead of getting their hands dirty and think how make them work...

Versatility seems incredibly boring and lazy. It's going to be either way too good or way too undertuned and therefore, shit.

Definitely. "Versatility" is simply a stupid stat. The most boring of all. It seems that they do not charge enough money as to have a little more imagination...

I'm also mad about minor stats being "randomly rolled" on gear, so you may need to get the same piece to get the minor stats. I know they're minor, but I feel like every piece should auto-have minor and be randomly rolled from there. Rolling for affixes on gear is more akin to Diablo and with loot having enough RNG in WoW already, do we really need the minor stats to be random and then randomly rolled? RNG upon RNG is NOT a good thing (see that healer trinket from Dragon Soul no one used because it had a chance to trigger off of crits)

The solution to this problem has a name: the return of the possibility to Reforge

[Florena]

I partially agree with you.

I am very sorry that "Readiness" has to disappear, since it was a stat certainly with much potential.

But you're right, the laziness and apathy of Blizzard prevent them to successfully apply good ideas. They always will opt for the easier way, and will throw away good ideas simply because it exists some complexity when it comes to implementing them, instead of getting their hands dirty and think how make them work...



Definitely. "Versatility" is simply a stupid stat. The most boring of all. It seems that they do not charge enough money as to have a little more imagination...



The solution to this problem has a name: the return of the possibility to Reforge

I'm glad readiness is gone. It's a stat that would probably end up having more break point issues than haste. Either the amount lets you get another big damage cd like arcane power or adreneline rush in on a fight, or it does not and goes to waste. Combine that with some classes and specs being much less cooldown oriented (like WW monk whose big damage 'cooldown' is actually something that builds up charges and thus isn't affected) and it just doesn't work out well in practice despite seeming cool on paper.

I agree about versatility. It's basically the return of spell/attack power except not on all loot and it has a minor defensive value so that they can call it something new.

I don't see how reforging is going to help here. Blizz wants minor stats to be, well, minor things that you can't count on always getting on your gear. Letting you reforge minor stats would defeat the purpose of them being small, interesting bonuses you sometimes get on loot.

[Mormolyce]

I'm glad they scrapped Readiness because I feel like they were unable to fill it in for a few classes (e.g., us especially), and Versatility seems incredibly boring and lazy. It's going to be either way too good or way too undertuned and therefore, shit.

Versatility, as I understand it, will deliberately be slightly suboptimal compared to other stats (not sure if they were including tanks & healers in that comment though), however the tradeoff is it also increases survivability. So if you have it, it's not the end of the world, and maybe for soloing or whatnot it'll have a use - but nobody will actually be going for it most of the time.

But all it does is make a (potentially) fun stat very annoying and frustrating, exactly like D3. They also forget that D3 = you always get gear and WoW = you may get gear but probably won't. Big differences.

It's nothing like D3. Minors are a non-necessary bonus. In D3 every stat, how much of the stat you get, the affixes, the ILVL, everything is random. All of the main stats in WoW are fixed.

Basically if you get your BiS piece you are finished. If however a few weeks later you're killing boss 2 for the hundredth time and the same piece drops with run speed on it or something, it's better than junk. That keeps farm interesting for longer, without making you spend forever trying to get a totally optimal set (like eg, Warforged).

- - - Updated - - -

I partially agree with you.

I am very sorry that "Readiness" has to disappear, since it was a stat certainly with much potential.

But you're right, the laziness and apathy of Blizzard prevent them to successfully apply good ideas. They always will opt for the easier way, and will throw away good ideas simply because it exists some complexity when it comes to implementing them, instead of getting their hands dirty and think how make them work...



Definitely. "Versatility" is simply a stupid stat. The most boring of all. It seems that they do not charge enough money as to have a little more imagination...

Versatility is more interesting than the other stats in a sense because it's an actual choice. Have optimal damage or increase survivability. Regular stats you simply google to figure out which one you want and ignore the rest. Of course in the majority of PVE people will choose damage, but hey - it is there if for some reason you decide to increase survivability instead.

If you actually read why they removed Readiness you'd understand it. On a trinket it makes sense but if it's on all gear suddenly it either scales too well, in which case you quickly "cap" in that you have almost no downtime on your CDs (which is weird and awkward for some rotations) or it scales too slow so it'll never be competitive with other stats. So essentially, sounded like a good idea but when they put it on the bench it didn't work out. This is called the design process.

The solution to this problem has a name: the return of the possibility to Reforge

They definitely will not bring back Reforging so you can change minor stats. (A) serves no purpose and (B) against the actual design goal for minors. They're random bonuses that are not required to min/max in any way.