Holinka's Report Card

[Evelyn]

Making resilience baseline outside of bgs was a mistake.

Also, cc is out of control and the survivability of some classes is just too great.


This game is moving too fast. Where has the magic gone? Things seem easier and easier to obtain. Things feel less rewarding. Whiners get rewarded. Lazy casuals get rewarded. Feedback of veteran players gets ignored. Class homogenization. So many unnecessary changes made. It's honestly a slap in the face. The game feels super mainstream now. I get that it's a business, but come on! Players are getting what they want, not what they need.

This may just be nostalgia talking, but the end of vanilla and tbc was great fun. After WotLK things just started going downhill.

[ro9ue]

Still no clue why they don't have a set stat level for PVP. IMO they need to pick an item level to balance at, say 650. In any PVP contact it gives everyone the same exact PVP power and Resilience and scales your gear stats to 650, both up or down as necessary. This way if you're a mastery whore you can still get the stats you picked on your gear, but it's always an even playing field... Which is what PVP should be.

There are so many other imbalancing variables like class, composition, spec, etc... you don't need gear disparity to further complicate things. Again as I've said before in many threads, it's ok to get more powerful in PVE and destroy your opponent. In PVP you're destroying another living persons gaming experience. That is not cool and why PVP will continue to be a joke to me until they take the gear variable out.

[Shamanegans]

Baseline Resil was a terrible idea, Think they realized this themselves after they done it. But what I don't get is why they don't address the problems they create quicker instead of "oh wait for the new expansion" ... Sure it might take alot to fix it but we are bloody paying the money for it to work! Everyone could see that CC was getting way out of control 2 expansions ago, yet they go and add more in, then have to add in CC breakers. It isn't rocket science to say "We messed up, but we will address it and fix it".

IMO PvP is a total joke right now and has been since Cata. Way to much CC flying around that you die before you even get control of your character ... It's pathetic and CC should have been reduced/ no more added in AGES ago. Melee in particular (except DKs) have way too many ways to keep up with you unless you play a mage.

[Evelyn]

I understand griefing isn't against the ToS, but spawn camping someone should be considered a form of harassment. They could do something about it like give the person a buff that allows them to take less damage for 5 minutes if they have been ganked so many times within a certain period of time. Or if there is a level difference, you could give that person immunity to death for 5 minutes after having been killed 3 times within 2 minutes. Just ideas to help improve the experience of players on pvp realms. Inb4 pvp server.

I miss summoning stone pvp and when our beloved dungeons weren't cut into pieces.

I miss the old talent trees.

[Deleted]

There have been improvements in the last 2-3 years with access to the best PVP gear for all players, which is important to PVP as you know you that gear is not the reason if you win/lose against another person equally geared (which should now be more likely now that everyone can access the same gear).

One thing that has not really changed is class balance, remember all that whining over warriors? Blizzard has a nasty attitude to PVP class balance (New or the same classes/specs are always doing well). Eg Mages, warriors and locks always seem to average well and new classes such as DK and Monk are in a good place as well. But specs such as Retribution Paladin, Feral, Fire mage, Demonology etc have a history of highs and lows and blizzard do little to make every spec work.

If they feel it is not feasible to make every spec work, then why not label which specs blizzard intends to be a PVP spec, rather than have players guess or work out the best pvp spec.

[Packing an i5]

My favorites seasons were 2 3 6 and 7 because i could play something besides Sub. In terms of balance, mid-late wrath was the height of balance. Early cataclysm wasnt too bad either but they crushed my preffered spec so its hard to praise.

the worst season I have ever seen other than the infamous season 5 has to be season 12.

Damage was too high in Wrath everyone knows that, CC got out of control and healing in cataclysm the game became about CC and burst. Now in Mop CC has gotten even more out of hand and so has burst and healing.

Additionally the base resil thing fucking with world pvp sucks.

[Theed]

The current dev team/holinka brought many MANY good things to wow pvp. PvP has never been more balanced. Region wide arenas and the removal of arena teams was on of the best things to happen since the implementation of arenas. I consider RBGs a failure however. Everyone is nostalgic and likes x expansion more, but saying something like "Complete disaster!" is delusional.

[meathead]

There have been improvements in the last 2-3 years with access to the best PVP gear for all players, which is important to PVP as you know you that gear is not the reason if you win/lose against another person equally geared (which should now be more likely now that everyone can access the same gear).

One thing that has not really changed is class balance, remember all that whining over warriors? Blizzard has a nasty attitude to PVP class balance (New or the same classes/specs are always doing well). Eg Mages, warriors and locks always seem to average well and new classes such as DK and Monk are in a good place as well. But specs such as Retribution Paladin, Feral, Fire mage, Demonology etc have a history of highs and lows and blizzard do little to make every spec work.

If they feel it is not feasible to make every spec work, then why not label which specs blizzard intends to be a PVP spec, rather than have players guess or work out the best pvp spec.

thats the whole problem and i been saying it for years.tell me why a fire mage should be good in pvp when they have frost to play,frost is always good in pvp period.ret pallys always have holy to play if ret is weak.why should a class have all specs viable?its not good for the game.arms have had up and downs like a roller coaster,but whens the last time both arms and fury were #1 in pvp,thought so.

this whole spec viable crap was the start "one of the reasons" why wows pvp went to shit.you have kids crying that they want to play fire in pvp and frost in pve.the devs removed pvp and pve specs because of it and it fucked up the game.GC himself said the game would be better balanced if they went back to pvp and pve specs but they qq would be out of control.

want real balance?pvp and pve specs is the first thing that should happen.here is an example- arms = pvp and fury =pve.frost mage =pvp fire mage =pve.

[Deviant]

thats the whole problem and i been saying it for years.tell me why a fire mage should be good in pvp when they have frost to play,frost is always good in pvp period.ret pallys always have holy to play if ret is weak.why should a class have all specs viable?its not good for the game.arms have had up and downs like a roller coaster,but whens the last time both arms and fury were #1 in pvp,thought so.

this whole spec viable crap was the start "one of the reasons" why wows pvp went to shit.you have kids crying that they want to play fire in pvp and frost in pve.the devs removed pvp and pve specs because of it and it fucked up the game.GC himself said the game would be better balanced if they went back to pvp and pve specs but they qq would be out of control.

want real balance?pvp and pve specs is the first thing that should happen.here is an example- arms = pvp and fury =pve.frost mage =pvp fire mage =pve.

Having all specs be viable is good for the game because 90% of the shit you queue into won't be kfc or warlock/shaman/x. making pvp only specs won't do anything but limit spec choice which isn't balance either because 11 specs out of 33 being viable isn't balance. Do you know what balance means... Can u find a quote for the comment you made about ghost crawler?

[Shamanegans]

thats the whole problem and i been saying it for years.tell me why a fire mage should be good in pvp when they have frost to play,frost is always good in pvp period.ret pallys always have holy to play if ret is weak.why should a class have all specs viable?its not good for the game.arms have had up and downs like a roller coaster,but whens the last time both arms and fury were #1 in pvp,thought so.

this whole spec viable crap was the start "one of the reasons" why wows pvp went to shit.you have kids crying that they want to play fire in pvp and frost in pve.the devs removed pvp and pve specs because of it and it fucked up the game.GC himself said the game would be better balanced if they went back to pvp and pve specs but they qq would be out of control.

want real balance?pvp and pve specs is the first thing that should happen.here is an example- arms = pvp and fury =pve.frost mage =pvp fire mage =pve.

That is not the correct solution though. A paladin that wants to focus on damage dealing should not be pushed into healing if they want to PvP. They chose ret to deal damage.

Same for druid, if someone wants to play Moonkin they should be allowed to if they want a caster DPS druid, they should not be forced to heal or go feral.

By doing that you are limiting a game that people are paying for because what if they cannot play a spec well and are amazing with the other one? They probably wouldn't play that part of the game cause they are forced to play the other spec and that is never a good thing.

[Matt0193]

thats the whole problem and i been saying it for years.tell me why a fire mage should be good in pvp when they have frost to play,frost is always good in pvp period.ret pallys always have holy to play if ret is weak.why should a class have all specs viable?its not good for the game.arms have had up and downs like a roller coaster,but whens the last time both arms and fury were #1 in pvp,thought so.

this whole spec viable crap was the start "one of the reasons" why wows pvp went to shit.you have kids crying that they want to play fire in pvp and frost in pve.the devs removed pvp and pve specs because of it and it fucked up the game.GC himself said the game would be better balanced if they went back to pvp and pve specs but they qq would be out of control.

want real balance?pvp and pve specs is the first thing that should happen.here is an example- arms = pvp and fury =pve.frost mage =pvp fire mage =pve.

Wow, you're actually fucking retarded. So say I play Ret, as I have done for years, I'm suddenly not allowed to play Ret competitively in PvP because someone decides "Nope, only 1 PvP spec per class. If you don't like it, lump it". And people are saying GC and Holinka's bad ideas were gamebreaking, this is the holy grail.

OT: C, though not for Baseline resilience which I don't mind and understand why it was added, though why it was used as a tuning mechanic is beyond me (Which caused PvE gear to dominate in WPvP ; /). I like some of his ideas but others are just blatantly fucked up yet because it's the Blizzard way "It's my decision and I'll defend it to the death", even when points are raised during the PTR testing period for each.

Keep it civil please.

[meathead]

Having all specs be viable is good for the game because 90% of the shit you queue into won't be kfc or warlock/shaman/x. making pvp only specs won't do anything but limit spec choice which isn't balance either because 11 specs out of 33 being viable isn't balance. Do you know what balance means... Can u find a quote for the comment you made about ghost crawler?

the quote from ghost crawler was a while back-no clue where to even look for it now.
no having all spec viable is not good for the game,heres why.i will use warriors as an example since thats what i played.arms-arms damage can not be adjusted for pvp reasons without it effecting pve.all specs viable makes it so that arms has to do a certain amount of damage in pve "being viable to raid with".let say arms damage is a little high in pvp,the devs cant just simply nerf damage because it effects pve damage as well.they have to come up with dumb ways to not effect both pvp and pve.

also all specs viable means that every spec needs the tools/utility to compete in pvp or pve.that leads to to much cc and burst in pvp.why is cc out of control now?answer is ever spec has some from of cc/stuns ect,just like i said.go back to pvp and pve specs and there would be no need for all that crap.the devs could focus on "arms" having the damage and tools need for pvp without having to worry about pve at all.then give fury the tools /damage it needs for pve without effting pvp at all.

one last thing-look at peoples respeonce's to me here-see the hate-the nasty replies.what i said is true-the amount of qq from kids wanting to run fire in pvp would be way over the top to change back to pvp and pve specs.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, you're actually fucking retarded. So say I play Ret, as I have done for years, I'm suddenly not allowed to play Ret competitively in PvP because someone decides "Nope, only 1 PvP spec per class. If you don't like it, lump it". And people are saying GC and Holinka's bad ideas were gamebreaking, this is the holy grail.

OT: C, though not for Baseline resilience which I don't mind and understand why it was added, though why it was used as a tuning mechanic is beyond me (Which caused PvE gear to dominate in WPvP ; /). I like some of his ideas but others are just blatantly fucked up yet because it's the Blizzard way "It's my decision and I'll defend it to the death", even when points are raised during the PTR testing period for each.

Keep it civil please.

1st off reported-2nd guess when wows pvp started goign to complete shit?thats right wrath-what happened in wrath,that right again dks and god mode rets.that when the devs wanted rets to be high end in pvp as well as holy and look what happened because of it.the game had pvp and pve specs for years all the way up to wrath and guess what?wow was much better of when they did.

of course some classes would have 1 pvp spec and another "viable" like holy and ret becasue the game does need healers.but every class viable is a huge reason why the game is a shit hole as far as pvp goes.

also want to tlak about balance?heres a fun fact-in wrath you had more specs in pvp then every before,know why?becasue you had more classes in game then ever before,you know since dks got put in.i also willing to bet that there is more specs/classes in pvp in mop since monks are in game now.more classes/specs in game means more classes/specs in pvp.that in no way means better balance or game play.or do you really think pvp in mop is in a good spot?

again the game had pvp and pve specs for years and the game was better when they did.for you to call me fucking dumb for pointing that out is in its self ,dumb.do you remember the days when classes had different hit points and the like?classes and specs felt different but people like you bitch and cry wanting spec x to be good at something it was not meant for,so you got what you wanted,a big pile of shit.

one last thing-blizz still makes sure certain specs are good in pvp.thats why arms is always better in pvp then fury,same with frost mages ect.sure you could come up with some examples like arcane mages had retarded burst in pvp,but that wa sbecasue they were turned for pve.thats my point-they caused problems in pvp because they had to be viable.

[Chickat]

He didnt join until after MoP if I remember right. Lets judge him on WoD pvp as thats the first time hes had control over everything.

[Deleted]

I hate warlock pvp as it stands, I thought Cata was bad but I'd take that any day over MOPs, not sure how much of that is due to the MOP warlock revamp which seemed to be made with only pve in mind and by people who didn't understand pvp.

Think Holinka needs some more time before any evaluation can be given - didn't he come in well after MOP was in work? WOD will be the time to see what he brings to the table.

[Dnusha]

Imo holinka doing things right

[Shamanegans]

2nd guess when wows pvp started goign to complete shit?thats right wrath-what happened in wrath,that right again dks and god mode rets.

There were really bad seasons before wrath too. Season 5 springs to mind and there was also mace stun a while back too that broke PvP.

also want to tlak about balance?heres a fun fact-in wrath you had more specs in pvp then every before,know why?becasue you had more classes in game then ever before,you know since dks got put in.i also willing to bet that there is more specs/classes in pvp in mop since monks are in game now.more classes/specs in game means more classes/specs in pvp.that in no way means better balance or game play.or do you really think pvp in mop is in a good spot?

Yeah sure they added in more specs but they also redid the talent system etc making it and I quote "easier for us (blizzard) to balance". They added in the extra specs themselves, no one forced them to do it so if they create more work for themselves then so be it. you make your bed, you sleep in it.

again the game had pvp and pve specs for years and the game was better when they did.for you to call me fucking dumb for pointing that out is in its self ,dumb.do you remember the days when classes had different hit points and the like?classes and specs felt different but people like you bitch and cry wanting spec x to be good at something it was not meant for,so you got what you wanted,a big pile of shit.

Homogenization is never a good thing because it takes away niche's from a class, but the difference between say a fire mage and a frost mage is not that. Classes still have alot of differences and that is not due to being able to play what spec you want.

one last thing-blizz still makes sure certain specs are good in pvp.thats why arms is always better in pvp then fury,same with frost mages ect.sure you could come up with some examples like arcane mages had retarded burst in pvp,but that wa sbecasue they were turned for pve.thats my point-they caused problems in pvp because they had to be viable.

It's not that they make sure a class has a spec good in PvP, it is that they MUST have at least one spec that is good in PvP or they are denying the person that plays that class part of a game they pay for and they can't do that if they charge money for it.

The example you described with an arcane mage having alot of burst is nothing to do with arcane being viable or not. It is because they inflated the PvE numbers and never thought what that could do in PvP.

The main problem is that they are trying to balance PvP around a PvE game. Personally if they balance PvP numbers then tune PvE numbers around that damage the game would be much easier to balance imo.

From what you are suggesting though then you would gimp most hybrid classes, cause they would either have to heal or damage when they might prefer the other one. You simply cannot deny people playing their class how they want since they pay for it each month the same as everyone else.

[Hand Banana]

This is a tough one; from a purely balance standpoint the game is as good as its ever been. Every class is viable and generally in many comps. Healers are fairly balanced compared to what they usually are. However, the game is less fun than its ever been. Everything feels overpowered, too much cc, too much burst damage, too much burst healing, and too many defensive cds. You can be winning a match on the offensive then randomly get globaled, or play against an LSD that just turtles for 15 minutes then randomly kills someone. The game is just not as fun as it used to be. I gave a D for that but it terms of balance its a least B so its tough.

Why is baseline resil such a bad thing I ask? Because of world pve? Baseline resil is a very good change for any instanced pvp so I assume you are just talking about world pvp. This literally could all have been fixed with just a few % tweaks on both pvp power and resil that they refused to address. This enhances my D vote IMO; it would have been as simple as: 40% base resil in world, 80% base resil in instanced, buff pvp power scaling or make pvp power grant small amount of resil in the world. Such easy, much simple, Holinka fail.

[Shamanegans]

Why is baseline resil such a bad thing I ask? Because of world pve? Baseline resil is a very good change for any instanced pvp so I assume you are just talking about world pvp. This literally could all have been fixed with just a few % tweaks on both pvp power and resil that they refused to address. This enhances my D vote IMO; it would have been as simple as: 40% base resil in world, 80% base resil in instanced, buff pvp power scaling or make pvp power grant small amount of resil in the world. Such easy, much simple, Holinka fail.

Baseline resil made it so that players could wear HC PvE gear and global someone (since they had way more stats than a PvP geared person) but they still had the same resil as someone in PvP gear. That is stupid. PvP gear should make you better at killing players and better at surviving players too.

[Stormspellz]

Baseline resil made it so that players could wear HC PvE gear and global someone (since they had way more stats than a PvP geared person) but they still had the same resil as someone in PvP gear. That is stupid. PvP gear should make you better at killing players and better at surviving players too.

It did what it was meant to do, make it easier for pve'rs to get into pvp. Granted the avoidable side effect due how insane gear scaling is was a major down side, but for the most part it succeeded in its purpose.

[Evelyn]

It did what it was meant to do, make it easier for pve'rs to get into pvp. Granted the avoidable side effect due how insane gear scaling is was a major down side, but for the most part it succeeded in its purpose.

Make it easier for pver to get into pve?? Come on. You can get conquest points with random bgs now. There's also a conquest catch up system.

The argument I never understood is hearing a pver saying "well the boots on the other foot now" in regards to pve heroes destroying pvpers in world pvp because of baseline res. Let me ask: Is a player in pvp gear is going to be allowed to stay in a raid? Most of the times no. I've seen people rage over catching people in pvp gear. Is a player in pvp gear is going to outperform a player in pve gear when it comes to raids? No, and they shouldn't.

World pvp was already pretty much dead due to other changes, then they released baseline resilience which put the nails in the coffin.