Karabor and Bladespire are no longer our Capital hubs.

[anaxie]

Excellent. Revisits are likely. That's all we wanted to hear. Instead of logging out each night from within a mighty, historical temple with a lovely view over possibly the most beautiful zone ever created in the Warcraft universe, with my friends/faction around me, I'll log off in an Alliance fort on a rock. Cool. I'm still trying to find words to express my excitement and gratitude.

Or log off in your garrison in the same majestic zone with a scenic view of Karabor and bladespire the horizon?

[Velerios]

I don't buy it. So the fix is to make an island, and put a majority of Horde and Alliance players in hubs on either side of that very same map and island? That seems like a way to make it even worse, if anything.

Even more: think about the lags between dalaran and wintergrasp when a BIG battle happened. Now we are even closer to this location. Welcome 4 fps @ Ashran.

[Deleted]

I don't really see how what area we log in/out in, where we socialize, where we trade/interact etc has any particularly intricate connection with lore/quests/storyline and how much "sense" is made of their interconnection. It's not as if Shattrath etc were really "necessary" to be what they were/where they were for any reason other than that's what they chose.

That, and they were central, unlike Karabor/whatever the Horde's area was called. But then again - Ashran is quite the polar opposite of central too, so that can't have come into it.

According to Lore's post on the forums, the decision was purely lore based (how fitting). Whether or not you believe this is an entirely different matter. I'm not sure I buy it, personally. It makes much more sense to use already established bases as a stronghold to counter-attack the iron-horde. Also allows garrisons to distinguish themselves from the cities.

As it stands it looks like our factions will have a similar progression in Draenor as we have with our Garrison. Cute, but boring, especially since they share the same overused theme.

[Yarathir]

Even more: think about the lags between dalaran and wintergrasp when a BIG battle happened. Now we are even closer to this location. Welcome 4 fps @ Ashran.

Exactly. So I don't buy the "FPS problems" thing, because Ashran would be even worse, logically.

[anaxie]

We got it after the first post, but you do not understand our counter arguments!!! >:V I am sorry, but being placed on the opposite ends of a CRZ wPvP zone will create massive lag, the island makes no sense except for forcing wPvP upon us, they gave us a LORE reason for changing it, that contradicts the lore of the expansion itself, and you are still defending this "Because Garrison is main city hurr durr" WE GET THAT, BUT IT HAS 0 OF THE FUNCTIONALITY OF A NORMAL CITY, and for most people, Karabor/Bladespire would even be less of a pain in the arse than Ashran.

Do you FINALLY get it!? (I am sorry mods, but I hade to try one last time to make anaxie understand why the fuck we are actually complaining and to stop trying to derail the thread with constant "Muh Gurrzon!" talk...)

I get it. Do you get that Garrisons have functionality that NO cities in the entire game have and link directly to another "garrison" hub that does have the other functionality assets that you desire through a portal. an effect that takes less time then to fly to a different district in Stormwind / Org unless you are running on windows 98.

[Kaleredar]

According to Lore's post on the forums, the decision was purely lore based (how fitting). Whether or not you believe this is an entirely different matter. I'm not sure I buy it, personally. It makes much more sense to use already established bases as a stronghold to counter-attack the iron-horde. Also allows garrisons to distinguish themselves from the cities.

As it stands it looks like our factions will have a similar progression in Draenor as we have with our Garrison. Cute, but boring, especially since they share the same overused theme.

The only thing worse than a lackluster design direction is saying there's some cutesy lore reason behind it.

[megasus]

Oh please. You and people like you are calling entire threads whiners. Yet when it finally comes to it, it was "oh, but we were just referring to a bunch of people who were unreasonable!" even though you never referenced anyone but "people with complaints.".

See, now you're trying to apply the same logic to me that you apply to Blizzard. You're making up stuff, blowing statements up and reading too much into it.
Again, I think it is very much appropriate to complain about this manner but people who feed their arguments with wrong facts or obvious exaggerations just to get attention, makes them look like whiners.
You're seriously wondering why people like me point out miss-interpretations or bullshit-posts? Isn't this supposed to be a fair discussion, shouldn't we attach great importance and value to our arguments?

And you saying "well, just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.". That's a non-argument. I could do the same to you and Blizzard. I'm saying that this is a downgrade, for no other reason than "we feel like it". They cheated their customers, and now they're feeling the heat. Yet some people are setting down their silver shields and protecting their business practices, all whilst condemning EA for being such a bad company.

It's not about whether or not the changes make sense, but how excessive some people respond. The intentions not being reasonable is no excuse for being a jerk and making a conspiracy out of this situation.

[deadman1]

You didn't read my whole post, then.

I did, I understand that you said that some of us aren't like that, but you did say that you didn't want "to be lumped in with y'all" implying that anyone that says they dislike it will be "lumped it with all of us"

We can chalk it up to a mis-communication between the two of us. Not trying to start a fight with you.

[Yarathir]

According to Lore's post on the forums, the decision was purely lore based (how fitting). Whether or not you believe this is an entirely different matter. I'm not sure I buy it, personally. It makes much more sense to use already established bases as a stronghold to counter-attack the iron-horde. Also allows garrisons to distinguish themselves from the cities.

As it stands it looks like our factions will have a similar progression in Draenor as we have with our Garrison. Cute, but boring, especially since they share the same overused theme.

I find it very, very disrespectful that they always say "heck to it" when it comes to gameplay vs lore, and go for gameplay, always. But now when it benefits them, they make up some contrived lore explanation (that doesn't even explain anything, nor does it make sense) to justify this decision.


Basically, normally, it's always gameplay > lore, but now that they can use lore to excuse this, they're flip-flopping and making lore more important. To me, as a roleplayer, I find it very, very unfair that, now that it comes out well for them, they're using lore as a shield, when it's always been gameplay > lore.

[Constraint]

I think they are going to be fun as heck

Completely agreed - but they won't be a substitute for a capital city, not by a remote stretch. I think you underestimate just how much time is spent in capital cities, waiting for queues, jumping around, using the AH/trade chat, finding groups, looking at peoples' gear etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. It's not as if you can just pour an infinite amount of time into your garrison - you can only put so much into it. It's not going to be a task requiring your constant attention. You'll still only see people you expressly invite to your garrison. You still won't be able to trade, or use the AH, or get around to anywhere you need to go.

What part of that don't you understand? I don't give a flying cuddle if they may or may not create some random heroic scenario in Karabor in the distant future - it's no longer where we'll be logging out every night, with a beautiful view over Shadowmoon Valley. We'll be in our copy-paste fortresses, next to a PvP zone and the rocky sea.

[Yarathir]

See, now you're trying to apply the same logic to me that you apply to Blizzard. You're making up stuff, blowing statements up and reading too much into it.
Again, I think it is very much appropriate to complain about this manner but people who feed their arguments with wrong facts or obvious exaggerations just to get attention, makes them look like whiners.
You're seriously wondering why people like me point out miss-interpretations or bullshit-posts? Isn't this supposed to be a fair discussion, shouldn't we attach great importance to our arguments?



It's not about whether or not the changes make sense, but how excessive some people respond. The intentions not being reasonable is no excuse for being a jerk and making a conspiracy out of this situation.

I don't think I'm going to have a lot of success talking to you. Like KrazyK, you're doing stuff, and then getting upset that people interpret said stuff as stuff, rather than things. I'll leave you with this: if it looks like a spade, acts like a spade..

[Kaleredar]

I get it. Do you get that Garrisons have functionality that NO cities in the entire game have and link directly to another "garrison" hub that does have the other functionality assets that you desire through a portal. an effect that takes less time then to fly to a different district in Stormwind / Org unless you are running on windows 98.

So now we're back to portal hopping? Thought they said that was a bad thing, vis-à-vis cataclysm...

So if you had conducted MoP, you would have said "alright, let's take the 5.1 horde/alliance quest hubs, stick them on the opposite ends of the timeless isle, move the alliance player farm to Jade Forest, the horde player farm to Townlong, add a portal to and from, and then take away flying mounts" as your design decision?

Because that's what's happening here.

[Flutterguy]

EXACTLY somebody finally got it exactly right as I had been conveying it in their own words.

Had the plans for Garrisons not changed mid expansion from side fun base you put anywhere to the core gaming experience for non instanced dungeon / pvp content we very likely would have Karabor and Bladespire.

I think i love you flutterguy /shyface

I don't know if it would have had an impact on Karabor/Bladespire being capitals considering what Lore tweeted making it sound like there is no decision to reverse. The capitals being in Ashran was intended from the beginning. For whatever reason, Karabor/Bladespire was sold at Blizzcon.

d'aww

[anaxie]

I agree with you.

And on top of that, I've yet to see anyone, Anaxie or otherwise, rebuke the complaint that Ashran is COMPLETELY SEPARATE FROM DRAENOR, the continent we're SUPPOSED TO BE ON, on TOP of the fact that Garrisons don't supplant cities as they have none of the same functionality.

Draenor is a planet not a continent. Ashran infact is a part of the planet. Continent wise? Is Isle of Thunder part of Pandaria?

[Constraint]

I get it. Do you get that Garrisons have functionality that NO cities in the entire game have and link directly to another "garrison" hub that does have the other functionality assets that you desire through a portal. an effect that takes less time then to fly to a different district in Stormwind / Org unless you are running on windows 98.

And that's where we'll hang out. Because there are PEOPLE there. And with people come trading, interaction, group finding, gear inspecting and happy times all round. And that WON'T happen in a Garrison! You'll do your set tasks in your garrison, and, unless you particularly love your own company, you'll leave it until tomorrow! Comprendez-vous?

[Deleted]

I get it. Do you get that Garrisons have functionality that NO cities in the entire game have and link directly to another "garrison" hub that does have the other functionality assets that you desire through a portal. an effect that takes less time then to fly to a different district in Stormwind / Org unless you are running on windows 98.

... WE. HAVE. UNDERSTOOD. YOUR. POINT. But a Garrison does not feel ALIVE the same way normal cities do, and while sure, they got features no other city has, SO DID THE FARM IN Pandaria, BUT AS SOMEONE IN THIS POST ALREADY SAID, that does NOT make it a capital fucking city!!! Sure, we get it, Garrisons are important, but fucking hell, you even contradict yourself with saying that moving the main base to Ashran makes sense from ANY perspective, since we have seen them be able to phase entire city zones before. Honestly, if you are going to keep playing the "Lalala I refuse to realize people already know what I am speaking about and it has no relevance to the discussion anyway", I do have to say, and yet again, I AM SORRY MODS, but Anaxie, GTFO of this thread. Nothing personal, but you just keep throwing in unrelated things and trying to give Blizzard and escape goat. NO. They fucked up, THEY deal with it. -.-

[Kaleredar]

Draenor is a planet not a continent. Ashran infact is a part of the planet. Continent wise? Is Isle of Thunder part of Pandaria?

If they had stuck the faction hubs on the Isle of Thunder, it'd be the same as what they're proposing. Except we don't get to use flying mounts, and there's no raid.

Seeing as we're utterly detached from 95% of the landmass that we're supposedly spending oodles of fun times on, I'd say it's pretty separate.

[Jazzin]

I get it. Do you get that Garrisons have functionality that NO cities in the entire game have and link directly to another "garrison" hub that does have the other functionality assets that you desire through a portal. an effect that takes less time then to fly to a different district in Stormwind / Org unless you are running on windows 98.

Do the Garrisons have flight masters? Preferably ones that aren't campable by the other faction?

[anaxie]

I don't know if it would have had an impact on Karabor/Bladespire being capitals considering what Lore tweeted making it sound like there is no decision to reverse. The capitals being in Ashran was intended from the beginning. For whatever reason, Karabor/Bladespire was sold at Blizzcon.

d'aww

Atleast someone is willing to understand their decision making process. I LOVE karabor and Bladespire.

Fuck I loved Bladespire when people scoffed at it calling it a wasteland and a mudhut and solely embraced karabor because they couldnt comprehend the shear beauty of the zone and that towering sculpture.

[Deleted]

According to Lore's post on the forums, the decision was purely lore based (how fitting). Whether or not you believe this is an entirely different matter. I'm not sure I buy it, personally. It makes much more sense to use already established bases as a stronghold to counter-attack the iron-horde.

That's bullshit, because they could've figured that out a very long time ago (before Blizzcon) or/and anounce them raging nerds months back on the official wow pages. Lore is an excuse, anyone thinking otherwise is naive.