Is Demonology "awkward"?

[Tyrgannus]

Demo feels BA but it is unintuitive. MOST specs I look up the rotation/priority for dps online and think "Oh, that's really close to what I was doing" but with demo I was like "dafuq?". Felt the same things with Subtlety as well

[Palentium]

demo is by far my favorite spec. I don't think it needs any class changes then a few noteable buffs. It's skillset and playstyle is perfectly fine in my opinion. Buffing it overall dps by 15% or so should make it just as viable as the other specs

[Zinnin]

Buffing it overall dps by 15% or so should make it just as viable as the other specs

It's single target doesn't need a buff at all, and its cleave is one of the strongest in the game. The only reason Demo isn't played as often right now is becuase Affliction's Soul Swap is broken. A 15% buff would just make Demo a required spec, it wouldn't be bringing it "in line".

[Scathbais]

They're also removing some of the stance dancing by not having us snapshot Shadow Flame in meta. Will make things a bit more flexible imo.

What do you mean Liquid? Are they removing the mechanic that allows HoG/Shadow Flame to benefit from switching to demo before it lands?

[Kink]

What do you mean Liquid? Are they removing the mechanic that allows HoG/Shadow Flame to benefit from switching to demo before it lands?

Yes, since they're removing snapshotting; it directly affects meta weaving.

[Octa]

Yes, since they're removing snapshotting; it directly affects meta weaving.

They aren't removing all snapshotting though. Last I checked things like DP for Spriests will still snapshot haste and boomkin dots will still snapshot eclipse (looking for the tweets which confirmed these), etc. So has it been confirmed that meta snapshot will be gone?

[Jessicka]

They aren't removing all snapshotting though. Last I checked things like DP for Spriests will still snapshot haste and boomkin dots will still snapshot eclipse (looking for the tweets which confirmed these), etc. So has it been confirmed that meta snapshot will be gone?

Yes, the only Demo snapshot will apply to Doom with Meta mastery, and Corruption and Shadowflame to caster form. Those won't include temporary buffs which will remain dynamic.

[Octa]

Yes, the only Demo snapshot will apply to Doom with Meta mastery, and Corruption and Shadowflame to caster form. Those won't include temporary buffs which will remain dynamic.

Cool, haven't really kept up with the alpha because shit changes every single day and I just don't have the time. Thanks for the info.

[draganid]

demo was super badass in cata and blizz kinda fucked the dog with the mop version. i was always only demo lock, had 2 different demo specs and raided heroic in cata with him but it just felt shit in mop so i went to destro

[Protreh]

I returned to my warlock in ToT tier 15 and I didn't touch my warlock since ICC until MoP so I can't really comment on how it was in cataclysm but I really like how it is right now except the resource management.

I think demonology's tier 15 2 set bonus should be a permanent thing for demonology cause ever since I lost my old set, it just feels like I am using few spells and get out of meta form quickly to preserve my demonic fury for the right time.

It just feels a bit awkward not spending a lot time in meta form. I think they should look into that in Warlords of Draenor.

But other than that everything is good, having 2 seperate dots in 2 forms etc, everything makes demonology an interesting specc to play.

[Nighthaven-]

Demo cleave is strong, but it's only to match its very low up-time. And that's what the clunky is as you'll have match-time short-lived add-packs by RNG as you use AoE and resource abilities for single target as well.

[Zinnin]

It just feels a bit awkward not spending a lot time in meta form. I think they should look into that in Warlords of Draenor.

I hear this from time to time, but don't really understand it. Do you mean the time in a single use of Meta, or Overall percentage? Looking at a few fights from my last raid I had 38-48% uptime of Metamorphosis, so I don't really feel like you are spending an insane amount of time in caster form. Currently in MoP we have to enter Meta every 30s for Hand of Gul'dan, which leads to a few small duration uses throughout the fight (changed in WoD)

Personally that I feel like the time spent per use is also just fine since we can maintain enough fury for almost all our trinket procs and Dark Soul.

[Protreh]

I hear this from time to time, but don't really understand it. Do you mean the time in a single use of Meta, or Overall percentage? Looking at a few fights from my last raid I had 38-48% uptime of Metamorphosis, so I don't really feel like you are spending an insane amount of time in caster form. Currently in MoP we have to enter Meta every 30s for Hand of Gul'dan, which leads to a few small duration uses throughout the fight (changed in WoD)

Personally that I feel like the time spent per use is also just fine since we can maintain enough fury for almost all our trinket procs and Dark Soul.

I mean the overall percentage. I think our meta form uptime should be around 60% in fights.

I am all about the fun here and meta form kinda makes the specc unique and more fun and I think we should have more uptime on that overall. Other than that time spent per use is usually fine for trinket proccs and dark soul.

Also It just reminded me that leaving the meta form automatically when there's not enough fury to cast another spell makes me want to bomb blizzard sometimes. I don't understand why they don't give us full control over that. Because I usually leave the meta form when I won't be able to / won't cast another ability and when it automatically leaves, I actually get into meta form again and you can't instantly leave meta form right away before global cooldown unless you have macro.

[Jessicka]

I think the balance feels fine, it's meant to be a special moment to build up to, not the norm.

The reason you can't drop it right away without a macro is probably down to having 'secure ability toggle' checked in your control options, taking that off will allow you to toggle faster.

[Deleted]

Yes, the only Demo snapshot will apply to Doom with Meta mastery, and Corruption and Shadowflame to caster form. Those won't include temporary buffs which will remain dynamic.

I missed this - do you have the info on doom snapshotting mastery pls?
Sensible though - I would not be a fan of having to try and game meta uptime around any doom ticks...

[Jessicka]

I missed this - do you have the info on doom snapshotting mastery pls?
Sensible though - I would not be a fan of having to try and game meta uptime around any doom ticks...

This blue post:

Though it's certainly up for debate, and we'll reevaluate based on feedback, we're going to go with this for now: Meta is snapshot. Corruption would never benefit from Meta, since it's always cast outside of Meta. Doom would always benefit from Meta, since it's always cast in Meta.

Meta should also not affect the Hand of Gul'dan explosion/DoT, since you were in caster form when you cast them.

[Shylock HMWH]

Yes I feel it is rather awkward. Getting the DP and then transforming only for a very short duration, along with the spell changes feels rather anticlimactic. Needs some tuning in WoD IMO

[Bullettime]

I'd say all three specs are easy to play, but hard to master, demo being the hardest in actual play as you can get it down on dummies but with mechanics it can be pretty 'awkward' while having to manage metamorphosis and micro manage everything else that gives Demo its high skill cap. Once you get muscle memory though; it's an extremely fun spec.

Pretty much. The stance dancing is something you get used to after awhile but it still feels kind of clunky and takes more work to get decent results compared to Destro.

The current design of it will leave this as a permanent problem sadly. It will ideally have to do more theoretical damage and beat out a spec like Destruction due to the increased effort required and mistakes being more punishing, otherwise there's no point in playing it aside from "funsies."

Luckily though, stance dancing for Corruption and Shadowflame is being being removed as of now.

[Deleted]

This blue post:

Though it's certainly up for debate, and we'll reevaluate based on feedback, we're going to go with this for now: Meta is snapshot. Corruption would never benefit from Meta, since it's always cast outside of Meta. Doom would always benefit from Meta, since it's always cast in Meta.

Meta should also not affect the Hand of Gul'dan explosion/DoT, since you were in caster form when you cast them.

Isn't this kinda weird? Either go all in or leave it be. Having exceptions to their fundamental changes only makes the whole matter more confusing, which is what i thought they'd like to avoid.

[Deleted]

Isn't this kinda weird? Either go all in or leave it be. Having exceptions to their fundamental changes only makes the whole matter more confusing, which is what i thought they'd like to avoid.

What do you mean? It basically means spells cast in Demon form benefit from Demon form Mastery, and spells cast in Caster form benefit from Caster form Mastery. Very simple.

If you're talking about snapshotting and not the way spells benefit from Mastery, then plenty of classes are getting 'some' snapshotting to preserve gameplay. E.g. Devouring Plague and Sunfire/Moonfire, to name a few.