[Holy] WoD Alpha/Beta Info & Discussion

[Pasture]

Holy was mentioned, Light's Hammer now has a mana cost as big as holy radiance

I know this is old news now but it's still the height of stupidity. Why smack a heavy mana penalty on a spell that you can only cast once a minute anyway....

[mcbubble]

Holy was mentioned, Light's Hammer now has a mana cost as big as holy radiance

Yeh. It was a ret who posted it - because they were bugged and had the same mana issue we're having.

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I know this is old news now but it's still the height of stupidity. Why smack a heavy mana penalty on a spell that you can only cast once a minute anyway....

My only guess: they want us to do EVERYTHING in burst...

[Juicyjonny]

when looking at guild logs i would hope the healers were of the same calibre given how easy it is to heal lol

You would be very surprised at the discrepancy in healer competence in most guilds.

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No Floopa, the reason why most of us find the playstyle boring and cumbersome is because of the class mechanics make it so. This is all subjective. You cannot tell us with absolute certainty why we find the spec "not fun". In my opinion, there is no alternate/less efficient playstyle available in current beta build that would make the holy paladins fun and interesting. Many of the issues we have mentioned have nothing to do with the talents so being able to play a different level 45 talent and the playstyle to go with it would still leave those issues in place. I even stated when in my post about the overall playstyle feel that it just might mean that the spec is just not for me anymore.

We will continue to discuss the class and its mechanics. You coming in here to tell us to not discuss it and imply it is a overall healer issue rather than a paladin issue is derailing the thread. Specific paladin mechanics, glyphs, overall playstyles, etc are paladin issues and should be discussed in a paladin thread. I do not see you running around other class threads stating they should not be talking about their class mechanics and feel of their classes, I don't see why you have this big urge to repeatedly come to the paladin forums to do it.

I second this.

[xiloclipse]

Did you actually test content where you weren't scaled high? All healers were having mana issues.

I was speaking directly to the raid testing on monday, sorry if this wasn't clear.

[nightfalls]

Would be wonderful if they recognized their EU testers, and gave them some basic posting rights without having to make multiple Bnet acc's. If that were the case I'd be posting multiple bug reports and adding to threads where ever I could.

I believe you can make a starter character now (US license) for free and use that to post on Beta forums with an EU account. Not sure though.

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most of the logs people linked showed pallies to be on par with shaman + monks, with discs behind and druids/holy priests on top. everyone knows holy priests/resto druids are op (and tuning hasnt begun) so why exactly are paladins in such a bad state?

Because as you said it, the numbers themselves mean nothing just like druid/hpriest numbers are not meaning anything. They can flip back and forth numerous times before end of beta season.

The real question is how we are holding up both mechanically and also "fun"-wise, and right now most people's feelings and opinions are extremely negative. Even if we end up over-tuned, the question to ask is, "Would I enjoy playing this class even if its numbers were OP?" For the answer to both 6.0 paladin (extremely) and even 5.4 SH paladin (to a lesser degree), the answer is pretty much a resounding no in my books.

[Xs]

I believe you can make a starter character now (US license) for free and use that to post on Beta forums with an EU account. Not sure though.

You have to make a new bnet account for that without some fancy work-arounds, and given that they're both linked now I'm not a fan of having to do that. Trying to use the starter acc takes you to your account, which has its starter acc bound to what ever region your bnet is based in, confirmed with a GM that theres no other way to do it, so its a giant fuck around just to even get the account, let alone the fact you have to change your realm list (at least) and force it to download the different localizations (en_US and pt_BR) just to be able to make a char in order to post.

[xiloclipse]

I suppose it would be really hard to have a beta forum that both EU and US could use.

[Xs]

Its within the realms of possibility, either that or they could actually have people read the EU ones.

[Dubalicious]

Not ideal, but what I did during MoP Beta was summarized my thoughts here as best I could and asked somebody to post it on the official forums - they did and it got some decent attention and created good discussion.

Definitely a bit of a frustrating/silly situation for you EU guys =(

[mcbubble]

What do you guys think about the new 2 piece? 5 seconds of more throughput vs other healers mana conservation bonuses...

[cremor]

You mean the change to the T9 set? Not really relevant today, is it?

What's more interesting is that MMO-C shows that all healers except Paladins lost their 8 second cooldown on their Cleanse-like abilities. Blizz again ignoring Paladins for changes
But Wowhead doesn't show this change. And both MMO-C and Wowhead show new glyphs for all healers that are worded like "Cleanse now has a maximum of 2 charges, but its cooldown is increased by 0 sec. Major Glyph.". So I assume the cooldown stays, but all healers will get that glyph.

[btard]

Rampant Growth Swiftmend now consumes your own Regrowth or Rejuvenation, but has no cooldown and its healing is increased by 100%. Druid - LvL 100 Talent.

that's just stupid. we got all cast time abilities while some classes are allowed to spam instants more than in MoP.

[Deleted]

that's just stupid. we got all cast time abilities while some classes are allowed to spam instants more than in MoP.

I don't think the Holy Paladin community is active enough in speaking up about the changes coming in WoD. So no changes will be made. I can be wrong, and I really hope that I am, because I really like my Holy Paladin on live but the direction they are taking with the Holy Paladin has made me loose all interest in it completely after playing it on Beta.

It feels so boring, clunky and uninspired. Smooth feel and rotation means a lot, you're doing the same steps over and over and instead of feeling inspired to try new stuff I just feel annoyed about how clunky it is to heal.

Even if this spec was the most OP spec in WoD I would never play it as it is now on beta. Ive been a Holy Paladin since I started playing, which was in Cata. I just don't understand why almost every spell we have now has a cast time. What is their mission with Holy Paladins? Slow cast tank healers?

[Zambal]

You mean the change to the T9 set? Not really relevant today, is it?

What's more interesting is that MMO-C shows that all healers except Paladins lost their 8 second cooldown on their Cleanse-like abilities. Blizz again ignoring Paladins for changes
But Wowhead doesn't show this change. And both MMO-C and Wowhead show new glyphs for all healers that are worded like "Cleanse now has a maximum of 2 charges, but its cooldown is increased by 0 sec. Major Glyph.". So I assume the cooldown stays, but all healers will get that glyph.

Yes all healers dispel cd stays, just bad datamining with the glyph...

[Gumboy]

that's just stupid. we got all cast time abilities while some classes are allowed to spam instants more than in MoP.

Druids won't be able to spam swiftmend, trust me :P I've been playing both heavily on beta, swiftmend will OOM you faster then you can so "OH GOD SOMEONE MANA TI...OH NO THERE IS NO MANA TIDE!"

[Bloodorem]

Well i guess the build finished before they could use the feedback given by the raid testing, else wise it would be strange if they didn't change any Healer.

@grumboy, at least you could do it if it's a life or death situation


By the looks of it there is still hope they change something, They don't care to balance healers right know and don't make any changes to any Healer, that could (and could not) mean there are big changes coming so they don't want to balance before that.

[Freia]

Druids won't be able to spam swiftmend, trust me :P I've been playing both heavily on beta, swiftmend will OOM you faster then you can so "OH GOD SOMEONE MANA TI...OH NO THERE IS NO MANA TIDE!"

Thing is, nearly every healer is having mana issues, so eventually they will have to turn up base regen or lower mana costs across the board. Still not a good thing to give a class the ability to spam instants while nerfing other classes ability to heal on the move (and stating it is your intention to tone down healing on the move).

[Deleted]

I don't think the Holy Paladin community is active enough in speaking up about the changes coming in WoD. So no changes will be made. I can be wrong, and I really hope that I am, because I really like my Holy Paladin on live but the direction they are taking with the Holy Paladin has made me loose all interest in it completely after playing it on Beta.
It feels so boring, clunky and uninspired. Smooth feel and rotation means a lot, you're doing the same steps over and over and instead of feeling inspired to try new stuff I just feel annoyed about how clunky it is to heal.
Even if this spec was the most OP spec in WoD I would never play it as it is now on beta. Ive been a Holy Paladin since I started playing, which was in Cata. I just don't understand why almost every spell we have now has a cast time. What is their mission with Holy Paladins? Slow cast tank healers?

While the holy paladin population is decreasing heavily(a trend started with MoP that stopped after tier 14 4set bonus and in ToT and then restarted even more after 5.3 patch) which affects forum activity , I wouldn't say its an activity/interest issue. Simply put, other classes have many loudmouths that spam their class thread the WoD forum in US for example. If you check the views on threads, the paladin thread has more views/days then the druid thread, but we don't have a Tiberria and a warlock level 1 alt spamming.

Realistically, the lack of changes in the current builds is due to the fact that class development(specially on the healer side) has stopped(which is sad for paladins because the class has never being more disgusting,boring and clunky).

[Juicyjonny]

Removing CD on EF is the only change they made????????????

So sad.

[Xs]

Come on guys, we've got plenty of loud mouth Americans here, I'm sure one of you can be our Beta forum mouth.