[Holy] WoD Alpha/Beta Info & Discussion

[Pasture]

The seemingly exodus of holy paladins has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

It was bound to happen. The class has needed change for a long time but very few changes came. The few changes that did come served only to slow the play style down, which just exacerbated the fact we're terrible mechanically.

[Coppervon]

It was bound to happen. The class has needed change for a long time but very few changes came. The few changes that did come served only to slow the play style down, which just exacerbated the fact we're terrible mechanically.

I agree that change is necessary in our department, but with the expansion still in infancy, it is creating a lot of panic--specifically, outsiders looking in that now feel paladins are completely incompetent. I am okay with our class being evaluated and manipulated. Our play style was clunky (I still enjoyed it) and right now we seem to have the healing equivalency of molasses on beta. I guess more than anything I'm anxious of the perception of others. I'd heard lots of discussions about bringing a paladin to dump heals into the tanks and I'm okay with us falling back into a niche roll--warranted we're not completely useless at everything else. However, now I am noticing a gradual dismissal of paladins all-together to stack druids and holy priests and that is just shoddy design.

[MCC]

However, now I am noticing a gradual dismissal of paladins all-together to stack druids and holy priests and that is just shoddy design.

Actually, universal stacking of druids and holy priests at the expense of all other classes is a very good thing for us. They can ignore our feedback, dismiss it as whining, but it's much harder to ignore an entire spec disappearing from raids. That sort of thing spells "you've gone and fucked up royally as a designer". I don't think there could be a better wake-up call.

Widespread raid participation changes are what leads to balance adjustments. So here's to exodus: may it continue until those Blizzard idiots pull their collective head out of their collective ass and actually do something about it.

[Gumboy]

Did you played holy paladin in MoP?

No, actually I didn't, I skipped the first couple tiers and now I am playing a filthy dps til WoD comes out and I can get back on my paladin (My old guild had its healer group set but wanted me back on something)

[Coppervon]

So here's to exodus: may it continue until those Blizzard idiots pull their collective head out of their collective ass and actually do something about it.

Touché, MCC. Blizzard was completely fine with holy priests being absolute garbage for an entire expansion and letting discipline priests play the role on Godzilla among the plebeian healers. I hope that something of that nature would pull at Blizzard's limited attention span, but how long would we be benched before they finally yield the nerf-baton? I think I'm becoming slightly more end-of-the-world with each post, and I have no intention on leaving the class--I'm just waiting for some decent communication with the community from Blizzard.

[MCC]

Touché, MCC. Blizzard was completely fine with holy priests being absolute garbage for an entire expansion and letting discipline priests play the role on Godzilla among the plebeian healers. I hope that something of that nature would pull at Blizzard's limited attention span, but how long would we be benched before they finally yield the nerf-baton? I think I'm becoming slightly more end-of-the-world with each post, and I have no intention on leaving the class--I'm just waiting for some decent communication with the community from Blizzard.

Yes, the history of class balance in MoP is not encouraging. Holy priests were weak, resto druids were weak, rogues were slowly disappearing, holy paladins all but vanished from higher brackets in arena, disc priests reigned supreme. None of this was addressed.

So, best case scenario: things will suck for us until the first major patch (or even until the second raid tier in WoD). Worst case scenario: things will suck for us until the next expansion.

[Floopa]

paladins are probably the 3rd strongest healer atm. druids > holy priests > paladins > shamans > discs > monks.

note: the gap between druids/holy priests and paladins is night and day. it just goes to show how fucked the other 3 specs are in relation to paladins, who are definitely the strongest of the "four underdog specs".

[rubenmsalles]

i'm not happy with holy paladins in wod. they are'nt funny or balanced or whatever.
they are clunky, and our almighty Celestalon tell nothing about that or plans or what.
i have a lot of questions about h paladins and wod.
why our only hot need to be talented and casted?? (EF)
why selfless helaer still need a judgment to work? why not a healing holy shock?
why in hell do blizz command us to learn to use holy power rotations and now they cut it off almost completely?
why do i need to direct heal beacon target? that's a waste of time, mana and resources. to our consolation price? (40% returning mana). well, are we a consolation class??
so there are two kind of class. first ones and consolation ones. i hope that monthly payment will be lower for consolation class. and, if we are the class with next amount of mana after every fight we will be nerfed AGAIN.

i'm so disappointed with wod and paladins. and i don't want to change my toon. i was spend a lot of time, energy and money -.-

[Deleted]

paladins are probably the 3rd strongest healer atm. druids > holy priests > paladins > shamans > discs > monks.

HR got a small change,nothing significant but it's an increase none the less.Whether we go with 4 healers (which is unlikely post-tuning,not intended at least) we will still be brought in on most if not all bosses,in most if not all guilds.

[Floopa]

HR got a small change,nothing significant but it's an increase none the less.Whether we go with 4 healers (which is unlikely post-tuning,not intended at least) we will still be brought in on most if not all bosses,in most if not all guilds.

gear permitting guilds would run 4 resto druids, there is no reason not to.

as gear does not permit this, it makes sense to run 2 resto druids and 2 holy priests. adding a paladin as a 5th is an okay idea, but honestly not needed. you could just have your shadow priest spec holy or your boomkins spec resto, because even with 0 additional spirit you're going to be more efficient and more potent (healing wise) than the other 4 specs in the game. as i said, the difference in power between resto + holy vs paladin is very noticable: which begs the question why would you bring anything -but- resto druids/holy priests.

it is soul crushing to see healing become worse than it is on live.

[Leefa]

I'm just about ready to riot at this point.

[Blash]

Holy Radiance still heals only 6 targets in-game. The tooltip change seems to be wrong (and HR is bugged, healing everyone for the same amount sometimes).

Edit: the targeted heal is actually ignored if enough targets (6+) are around.

[Deleted]

EF is dead as a spell right now despite proccing mastery again. You won't generate enough HP to use it reliably and it has a cast time.

Compare that to SS which costs a only GCD to keep up on the tank and offtank.

[ThePlanckEnergy]

Healing worse than on live? LOL. Not even close. Unless you're referring only to Holy Paladins (and arguably, it's better even then, as SH is the only spec of Paladin pulling decent numbers and it's all useless fluff).

The overall healing game is a lot better than a Disc preventing anyone else from doing anything and a Shaman swooping in behind with 10000% smart healing to get what little is left.

[nightfalls]

Healing worse than on live? LOL. Not even close. Unless you're referring only to Holy Paladins (and arguably, it's better even then, as SH is the only spec of Paladin pulling decent numbers and it's all useless fluff). The overall healing game is a lot better than a Disc preventing anyone else from doing anything and a Shaman swooping in behind with 10000% smart healing to get what little is left.

1) Your resto druid bias isn't showing. Nope, not at all. And you're so adding value to the discussion.
2) The point Floopa was making is that with 4 healers (versus 5-6) on roster and all, class diversity is going to be a lot worse than on Live.

On Live, during progress until the content was vastly outgeared, SH was not the "only spec of Paladin pulling decent numbers" and you generally wanted a somewhat diverse comp even with Disc as stupid as it was. That's gone away.

[ThePlanckEnergy]

I wouldn't worry about Druids. I would worry about Priests. Druids are likely going to get nerfed into the ground before live due to PvP.

[Xs]

Holy Radiance still heals only 6 targets in-game. The tooltip change seems to be wrong (and HR is bugged, healing everyone for the same amount sometimes).

Edit: the targeted heal is actually ignored if enough targets (6+) are around.

I don't even get why 90% of that tooltip is there, thats exactly the same as its says on the (broken) live tooltip that hasn't been changed since they changed HR over a year ago.

[Freia]

Edit: the targeted heal is actually ignored if enough targets (6+) are around.

It does that on live as well.

[Deleted]

gear permitting guilds would run 4 resto druids, there is no reason not to.
as gear does not permit this, it makes sense to run 2 resto druids and 2 holy priests. adding a paladin as a 5th is an okay idea, but honestly not needed. you could just have your shadow priest spec holy or your boomkins spec resto, because even with 0 additional spirit you're going to be more efficient and more potent (healing wise) than the other 4 specs in the game. as i said, the difference in power between resto + holy vs paladin is very noticable: which begs the question why would you bring anything -but- resto druids/holy priests.

Its not really a question of gear not permitting. Its an issue of putting all eggs into one druid basket and being extremely vulnerable to nerfs as a guild.

Most of the gear pre highmaul mythic will be craftables and obtained from CM, with the rest coming from raids in the week on heroic(current normal) where dps has prio. More or less all the highmaul gear is shared with warlocks/mages(for priests), hunters/ele(for shaman) and dk,warr,tanks(for palas) so its not like the other healers have a gear advantage.

[Floopa]

Its not really a question of gear not permitting. Its an issue of putting all eggs into one druid basket and being extremely vulnerable to nerfs as a guild.

Most of the gear pre highmaul mythic will be craftables and obtained from CM, with the rest coming from raids in the week on heroic(current normal) where dps has prio. More or less all the highmaul gear is shared with warlocks/mages(for priests), hunters/ele(for shaman) and dk,warr,tanks(for palas) so its not like the other healers have a gear advantage.

honestly? i dont expect druids to be nerfed at all. maybe during week 1 aka MWs with sck but really outside of a hotfix during week 1 im not seeing it happen. telling celestalon it's dumb that tranq heals for 5x any other raid CD and getting 0 response pretty much is the 'case closed' on that matter for me.

are you confident in paladin's ability to contribute and compete, or is the dream 2x resto druid 2x holy priest going to be a reality?