[Holy] WoD Alpha/Beta Info & Discussion

[Toore]

Blizzard already nerfed Seal of Insight during Cataclysm so that it didn't return mana since paladins were staying in melee to get the mana and thus had a huge edge in healing.

5.4 Not Cata

[Deleted]

They should remove HoPo from CS, it's just a bad design imho.

Few days ago I was reading Hamlet's blog and I'd say I can't agree more with him:

1) Instant HoPo spenders to increase the mobility once again
2) Reinstate the HoPo generation on Flash of Light only (with cost changes to FoL as needed)


ref. and credits http://iam.yellingontheinternet.com/...ons/#more-3187

[Deleted]

With a current beta picture...I have a feeling holy paladins got reversed a couple of expansions...it will all come back to that title..the tank healer once more

[PosPosPos]

With a current beta picture...I have a feeling holy paladins got reversed a couple of expansions...it will all come back to that title..the tank healer once more

Correction: the *subpar* tank healer.

[Angelgabriel]

Well, seems like those that wanted HP generation from CS removed have got your wish with the latest beta build. And, as has been the trend with paladin changes, and was my fear, there seems to be no counter-balancing change to offset yet another way that we can generate HP. Why don't they just put a shared 15-sec CD on WoG/LoD/EF and remove HP already, FFS?

[mcbubble]

Someone earlier suggested that we should gain Our HP over time and remove all HP generation methods. I for one love the idea!

[Angelgabriel]

The main problem with that idea is that it will make your rotation even more static than it in on live. Some bit of RNG combined with decision-making would be far preferable. But honestly, unless they either drastically reduce the cost of HR, they need to add another way to get HP. This is silly.

[Diggy]

By drastically reducing HR cost, we will go back to live -> HR, HR, HS rotation(for 10m currently anyways). It that happens, GG design team!

[Keiyra]

I kinda like the idea of doing a modifiy Serendipity for HP:

IE:
Holy Spec, Passive: Inspiration
Whenever you cast Flash of Light or Divine Light on a target without a Beacon, you gain a stack of Inspiration that lasts up to 20 secs. Upon reaching 2 stacks (or 3 if they want slower HP) your stacks are consumed and you gain 1 Holy Power. IF your are already at max HP, your stacks remain for up to 20 secs or until your HP bar has room for the additional HP.

Something like that would allow you to use/weave single target heals as needed and still build up some HP without relying soley on HS or HR. (mana cost or output of DL/FoL may need to be adjusted for balance)

I dunno, they just need to do something. It feels slow as is, but I also wouldn't want to go back to HR spam for holy power...

[mcbubble]

The main problem with that idea is that it will make your rotation even more static than it in on live. Some bit of RNG combined with decision-making would be far preferable. But honestly, unless they either drastically reduce the cost of HR, they need to add another way to get HP. This is silly.

the only "decision" that factors into your hp generation is if you should HR for HP. You're already going to HS on cd so there's no "decision" there.

[Angelgabriel]

the only "decision" that factors into your hp generation is if you should HR for HP. You're already going to HS on cd so there's no "decision" there.

Right. I'm not defending how it is now. It's terrible. Keiyra's suggestion above is as good as any I've seen, honestly.

[Leefa]

Healing should be about deciding which spells to use, not about following a rotation - they need to remove holy power completely.

[Deleted]

So we are still screwed as of the latest beta build with Blizzarad telling me on twitter that they did a great job with tuning paladins?

[Deleted]

Correction: the *subpar* tank healer.

Tanks aren't being hit as hard and we're not healing them for as much,without decent AoE we're dogshit.

- - - Updated - - -

I kinda like the idea of doing a modifiy Serendipity for HP:

IE:
Holy Spec, Passive: Inspiration
Whenever you cast Flash of Light or Divine Light on a target without a Beacon, you gain a stack of Inspiration that lasts up to 20 secs. Upon reaching 2 stacks (or 3 if they want slower HP) your stacks are consumed and you gain 1 Holy Power. IF your are already at max HP, your stacks remain for up to 20 secs or until your HP bar has room for the additional HP.

Something like that would allow you to use/weave single target heals as needed and still build up some HP without relying soley on HS or HR. (mana cost or output of DL/FoL may need to be adjusted for balance)

I dunno, they just need to do something. It feels slow as is, but I also wouldn't want to go back to HR spam for holy power...

I kind of like the sound of that.Maybe not exactly the way you made it,but something similar.

[Leefa]

So we are still screwed as of the latest beta build with Blizzarad telling me on twitter that they did a great job with tuning paladins?

Pretty much sums it up yeah.

[Floopa]

if 18 seconds is too slow (paladin community opinion), and 6 seconds is too fast (blizzard's opinion), then what is the sweet spot?

of course remember that if you got faster HP generation your mana costs would skyrocket, or your heals on your 'main spells' would be significantly weaker.

[Angelgabriel]

During tiers 11 and 12, I healed alongside a druid, shaman and holy priest at one time or another. In most cases, their HPS was a bit higher than mine, but it was OK, because I was doing something they couldn't do nearly as well: Keeping the tanks alive. Without a dedicated tank healer, getting through the encounters then was difficult. Paladins didn't have a ton of AoE, but because of our role as tank healers, that was OK.

The problem now is that we don't have amazing AoE, just like then, but gone is the need for a dedicated tank healer. With 4 healers typically in mythic, the hots and shields from the better AoE healers, along with spot healing and what's left of tank self-healing is usually more than enough to keep the tanks alive. So given that, why bring a paladin to the raid?

I don't think the issue is all about HP generation. If we had more effective ways to heal a raid and do competitive HPS overall, slow/no HP generation would be fine. As it is, the only way to heal a raid now is to either spend obscene amounts of mana on a weak HR or to eventually get enough HP to do a meh LoD. Faster HP generation would either allow us to do more LoDs, thus making it somewhat better, or to at least partially blanket the raid with EFs.

So if you ask what the sweet spot for HP generation, I will tell you that all depends. Are you going to improve our AoE spells? If so, maybe it's ok as-is. Are you going to leave things the way they are? Maybe 6 sec is more like it.

[JanthuSC]

But it is not in fact 18 seconds. Holy Shock cooldown benefits from Haste so you are closer to 15 seconds at these early stages and this will go down as the expansion progresses. We might be suffering the expansion scaling issue.

[Xs]

I kinda like the idea of doing a modifiy Serendipity for HP:

IE:
Holy Spec, Passive: Inspiration
Whenever you cast Flash of Light or Divine Light on a target without a Beacon, you gain a stack of Inspiration that lasts up to 20 secs. Upon reaching 2 stacks (or 3 if they want slower HP) your stacks are consumed and you gain 1 Holy Power. IF your are already at max HP, your stacks remain for up to 20 secs or until your HP bar has room for the additional HP.

Something like that would allow you to use/weave single target heals as needed and still build up some HP without relying soley on HS or HR. (mana cost or output of DL/FoL may need to be adjusted for balance)

I dunno, they just need to do something. It feels slow as is, but I also wouldn't want to go back to HR spam for holy power...

Why not just:
HR/FoL grant you a stack of Holy Banana, at 3 Holy Bananas you gain 1 HP.
The extra crap is tooltip bloat that gives them more reason to nerf it/our other abilities. If you really want to add something more interesting, you could add critical strike interaction, FE: chance equal to 50% of your crit that you gain an additional Banana.

[Bionix]

They doubled CS's mana cost from 5 to 10% mana. Got to love Blizzard's way of seeing things. "Holy Paladins are using CS to generate HP?! Must prevent them!" They don't stop and think WHY we are forced to use it. I admit that without the melee target protection and arguably even with it, CS is a bad mechanic for a holy paladin to generate HP. At least until maybe one day they decide to give us "Seal of Faith" Atonement healing.

The major problem still isn't being addressed. We once again are stuck with 3-4 finishers per minute.