[Protection] WoD Alpha/Beta Info & Discussion

[trystero]

+1
If Blizz nerf too much the self-survivability of tanks, if tanks are gonna be Threat Generators and no more, reroll is a good idea for ppl who enjoy playing roles with responsibility.

I remember some angry ranged DPS, probably a warlock, complaining on MMO Champ that only selfish players were melee DPS. At the time I thought, that's ridiculous, I play melee and don't consider myself selfish, but after thinking about it I have to concede he had point. On most fights, ranged DPS handle the mechanics whereas melee DPS simply tunnel. It stands to reason, in general, that your raid's better players should be ranged DPS - again, in general.

Tanks, though, seemed to be in a good place, where skilled players were not really wasted. To be an effective tank there's not all that much skill to it, but to do the later heroics, or to progress on content when not greatly overgearing it, there were many points for failure. Most of us in this thread would probably argue that content should be tuned harder, but for an expansion where tanks were more than afkbots, it was a good start. You could definitely tell when your raid had a skilled tank as opposed to a mediocre one, and an excellent tank could truly shine.

But if they want to renege on this philosophy, and return to the old days where tanks are simply meatshields, then it doesn't make much sense for a good player to be a tank, unless there's some intangibles involved (raid leader, who finds it easier to lead when tanking for example). Hence I'll roll mage if Celestalon delivers on his promise. Why waste your talent doing something which almost anyone else can do?

[celinamuna]

I remember some angry ranged DPS, probably a warlock, complaining on MMO Champ that only selfish players were melee DPS. At the time I thought, that's ridiculous, I play melee and don't consider myself selfish, but after thinking about it I have to concede he had point. On most fights, ranged DPS handle the mechanics whereas melee DPS simply tunnel. It stands to reason, in general, that your raid's better players should be ranged DPS - again, in general.

Idk, it's diff in SoO, but for most t15/14 i think it was the opposite.

And seconded, i'll probably be going rogue instead of prot paladin, esp now that tanks dps is capped.

[Zol]

And seconded, i'll probably be going rogue instead of prot paladin, esp now that tanks dps is capped.

I'm considering doing the same....just need to find a way to tell the GM he needs to find an off-tank.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I'm considering doing the same....just need to find a way to tell the GM he needs to find an off-tank.

I'd need to find a way to tell the GM he needs a new tanking/strategy officer

[Deleted]

We should to wait to Blizz post about Active Mitigatión changes, I mean, They can nerf Defensive CDs (Like Divine Protection, Barkskin, Demoralizing Shout), and don'ts nerf Active Mitigatión.

[celinamuna]

We should to wait to Blizz post about Active Mitigatión changes, I mean, They can nerf Defensive CDs (Like Divine Protection, Barkskin, Demoralizing Shout), and don'ts nerf Active Mitigatión.

prob not seeing how they mentioned AM.
I do want to see em nerf Argent Defender, dat 10% dmg reduction.

[Deleted]

This is all very concerning. I didn't mind when they scaled DPS back. It's fun to do huge crits but not that important as long as enough damage is done to kill the boss. What's worrying me though is that they seem hell bent on making us completely retarded ez mode to play... Like we should be babysat by the healers and it doesn't actually matter what the tank does as long as they point the boss away and do debuff bitch duty properly.

Like, if they nerf down AM and healing and CDs and passive DR and boss damage, there's less of a gap between good play and bad play. By changing the design from tanks being relatively self sufficient, with harsh punishment if you screw up, to being totally reliant on healers; which means all the damage we take will be slow&trickly to match the healing model, which means it wont matter as much if you don't keep your heals/shields up, don't pull off a clean rotation, etc. it just serves to make tanks agonisingly boring again.

Aggro doesn't matter, looking after your own survivability will be less important than what your healers are doing, and you can't even DPS anymore on top of it. Like, what actually are they leaving tanks to do besides stand next to the boss and stare at a debuff counter? I'm awaiting the changes rolling in but if they really marginalise our role in the raid much more I might just go DPS too.

E: I'm also not getting this "nigh-unkillable" thing too. All of the raid testing I've watched, the tanks are getting shit on regardless of class... They all seem to be dog shit tier apart from Warrior.

[Deleted]

E: I'm also not getting this "nigh-unkillable" thing too. All of the raid testing I've watched, the tanks are getting shit on regardless of class... They all seem to be dog shit tier apart from Warrior.

Indeed, when I last did Blackhand and Iron Maidens they took me to brown-town, especially Enforcer Sorka, wtf is that melee damage

[Totaltotemic]

Indeed, when I last did Blackhand and Iron Maidens they took me to brown-town, especially Enforcer Sorka, wtf is that melee damage

Boss melee damage is currently cranked up to nightmare mode levels. It's quite clear from all of their talk that bosses are not supposed to be meleeing tanks for half of their health just because active mitigation is not currently up, but they currently do because they would be invincible with AM up if they hit any less. The fact that, right this second, I could take a Warrior, Brewmaster, DK, or pre-nerf Guardian and self-sustain on the raid tank dummy (not the Mythic one, but the one below that) in pre-made unenchanted 660 gear indefinitely is insane. Bosses did about the same damage in Heroic raid testing.

Now, I know the philosophy of tanks 100% taking care of themselves is one people hold dearly, but with the way healers are designed that shouldn't happen until you out gear the content. With no enchants, no gems, no trinkets, and no set bonuses, 100% self-sustaining on a dummy that AAs as hard as a raid boss simply should not be possible. Currently Paladins have some trouble with this because of the immense dips between Seraphim, and eventually you just run out of cooldowns to cover those 15 seconds (I typically survived about 2 or 3 minutes before I would just get gibbed), but just about every other tank can do this. That's kind of a problem.

Non-Warriors are getting dumpstered currently because Mythic bosses are simply overtuned and the gear selection is not great, but on the Heroic testing before that pretty much everyone was a god.

[Deleted]

Yeah I know it is high, been following Celestalons tweets for a bit, but at the time it was pretty mental

[Deleted]

one thing with i don't get is that before wod, we had the nice buff with told us that haste reduces cd of our abbilities, it seems it still does that but at the same time they removed this passive abbility , and haste now increase both attack speed and spell casting, how is the haste working now?

[Deleted]

one thing with i don't get is that before wod, we had the nice buff with told us that haste reduces cd of our abbilities, it seems it still does that but at the same time they removed this passive abbility , and haste now increase both attack speed and spell casting, how is the haste working now?

Same as it did in live. Haste increases Attack Speed and Reduces cast time, and also lowers GCD. That is standard for every class. It also lowers the cooldowns of our abiltiies via Sanctity of Battle, but blizz have hidden the passive in the spell book. I think it might be in the character sheet insteead

[Vaeladin]

Same as it did in live. Haste increases Attack Speed and Reduces cast time, and also lowers GCD. That is standard for every class. It also lowers the cooldowns of our abiltiies via Sanctity of Battle, but blizz have hidden the passive in the spell book. I think it might be in the character sheet insteead

I don't see why Blizzard is hiding all those passives. Seems more confusing than helpful.

OT: I feel like at the end of the day prot will be perfectly fine. I can't think of a time when prot was actually bad at anything prior to the whole BC redesign. It's been one of the most consistent specs in the game.

[Deleted]

I don't see why Blizzard is hiding all those passives. Seems more confusing than helpful.

OT: I feel like at the end of the day prot will be perfectly fine. I can't think of a time when prot was actually bad at anything prior to the whole BC redesign. It's been one of the most consistent specs in the game.

What most of us are caterwauling about isn't whether our spec in particular will be fine, but whether the devs are making ass-backwards design decisions that will take tanking as a role back to the Vanilla Age.

We've gotten used to being useful, accountable, contributing members of our raid teams, and we'd like to keep it that way. Seeing them turn tanks back into brain-dead meat shields with no semblance of real responsibility that are only brought along because they are 100% absolutely mandatory, not because anybody genuinely wants to play them, is why we're all up in arms.

[Deleted]

What most of us are caterwauling about isn't whether our spec in particular will be fine, but whether the devs are making ass-backwards design decisions that will take tanking as a role back to the Vanilla Age.

We've gotten used to being useful, accountable, contributing members of our raid teams, and we'd like to keep it that way. Seeing them turn tanks back into brain-dead meat shields with no semblance of real responsibility that are only brought along because they are 100% absolutely mandatory, not because anybody genuinely wants to play them, is why we're all up in arms.

We should wait to Blizz post something about Tanks Changes. We are speculating a lot.

[celinamuna]

We should wait to Blizz post something about Tanks Changes. We are speculating a lot.

Holy has 81 pages of bitching moaning and speculating, ret has 249 pages, i think our 30 pages are acceptable :3

[Citykid]

May i ask Beta testers a question? :

It might have been asked Before and answered, but my question is, How well are Blizzard delivering on the "75%" of a pure dps part? is it fun and smooth to grind mobs and do quests as a protection Paladin? or is it slow and i better go Ret untill lvl 100?

[celinamuna]

May i ask Beta testers a question? :

It might have been asked Before and answered, but my question is, How well are Blizzard delivering on the "75%" of a pure dps part? is it fun and smooth to grind mobs and do quests as a protection Paladin? or is it slow and i better go Ret untill lvl 100?

lvling seemed fine, number tuning for tank dps is still being done

[Lethora]

May i ask Beta testers a question? :

It might have been asked Before and answered, but my question is, How well are Blizzard delivering on the "75%" of a pure dps part? is it fun and smooth to grind mobs and do quests as a protection Paladin? or is it slow and i better go Ret untill lvl 100?

Ret just melts through everything until lvl 98, then it slows down a bit but still goes very fast. I had a set of close to bis heroic gear + heroic heirloom though. Started to replace items only in the last zone, Nagrand.
Haven't tried prot but I have seen plenty of prot paladins running around on beta realms while levelling. I beleive it is feasible. And you would be able to aoe mobs down. Ret dies quickly if you pull more than 4-5 mobs of your own level.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

In the pre-made gear, prot was a lot more resilient while questing than retribution.