Help some casuals with Garrosh 10N

[Deleted]

Hi all,

we are struggeling with Garrosh. We have more than 100 tries so far. It won't work. And we have no idea whats really going on there. We have currently the following setup:

Tanks: 1, Pally
Healers: 3, Druid, Shaman, Disc
Melees: 2, Enhancer, Rogue
Ranges: 4, Ele, Hunter x2, Destruction WL

All have more or less full 553 (10-Normal) equip.

I have a WorldOfLogs link here: worldoflogs.com/reports/gm88nvi2omvegky9

Some comments about the log:

1. reaching P3 at 9:05 - big chaos, dying people
2. Tank dies in P1
3. Tank dies in P2
4. Tank dies in P2
5. hunter fail in P2, standing in melee when desec weapon comes -> Tank dies
6. tank dies in P2 while healers are running
7. 3 people dying due to annihilate
8. tank dies while one of the healers is MC'd

I would like ask you to take a general look, especially at healing and tanking, because I have no experience with that.

We are really in desperate need of help. Obviously I'm one of the persons above, but posting anonymous so that I get my fair part of the critique

Thanks in advance
HC

[Jasper63]

I feel your pain - my casual raid group had that many wipes and more on Garrosh before we finally got him. I don't have time to examine your logs, but I can give you a couple of comments. First, not sure why you're running with 1 tank and 3 healers - we needed 2 tanks (pally and DK), and we had to 2 heal it in order to get enough dps. Second, your gear should be higher if you want room to make mistakes, as we casual players inevitably make - there's just little room for error in 10 man. With the current upgrades available, you should be able to get your group item level average up above 560 - I think that would give you more umph. You've really got to get him below 33%, I think it is, when you go into the 2nd intermission, and then get him down to 10% in the phase after that if at all possible. Assign interrupts on the MC'd folks (whatever people have got, arcane torrent, what have you) to keep the MC from spreading. And people have got to stay out of bad - I know that sounds glib, but it took my group a while to get the dance down, so I know it's not as easy as it sounds, but it's really important, particularly if you drop down to two healers, as I think you probably need to.

I know these are kind of general suggestions, but hopefully they'll help a little. Most of all I wanted you to know that your group is NOT alone in struggling on this fight and I'm sure you will get him!

[Saphyron]

I can give a few general ideas for your group.

First off go 2 healers.
If that is not possible then don't

Second I would highly recommend doing the stacking tackign even more so if you have 3 healers.
And I want your entire raid to switch to the weapon as soon as it spawns then continue boss.

Have your tank call out external defensive cd's in p2 cause he is gonna need it also have 1 of the healers have the tank as focus and be ready to switch to him fast in case something happens.

Okay specific:
Priest should use SS on each iron ball explosion(can't remember name) in p1
Druid should use shroom explosion on weapon if raid goes below 50%
Priest should use Barrier on 3rd whirlwind in p2
Priest should use SS on 1st weapon and 2nd whirlwind in p2
Druid should use Tranq on 2nd whirlwind in p2
Shaman should use (the healing totem (don't play shaman)) on 1st whirlwind in p2
Paladin should use devo in transition phases
Paladin should throw ground hammer on raid during whirlwind
Use the engineer marker in p2 after 2nd transition and p3 for guidance to where the raid needs to run to at empowered whirlwind (the further away you are the less dmg it does)
People should quickly take 1 add and kill away from everyone at emp whirlwind.
People should switch asap to mc's and use interupts as much as possible in all parts.

And lastly if he is not already doing it druid should use shroom underneath garrosh in transition and everyone should stay on it at all times without getting hit ofc.

Many more tips and tricks avaible but is ok for now

EDIT FORGOT:
Tank should use CD's in p1 to survive adds.
Tank should use CD's in at 6+ stacks in p2
Depending on your dps and length of fight you might want to hero at zero on p1 does not last long. it really hurts on tank. and then hero at 20% hp in p3

Havent looked at your logs yet but above should be pretty okay tactics with your raid comp to survive the different parts of the fight

Ill look at logs now and will report if i see anything

edit 2

Okay sorry can't help with logs. Don't understand the spell names

edit 3:

Would highly recommend warcraftlogs in the future. much easier to read off. i can also see live replay if the recorder has advanced combat logging enabled.

[Erindia]

I haven't analysed logs as the spells are in German and I don't have the time or inclination to be figuring out what spells are which. That being said;

* Two tank it. With the amount of tank deaths, it seems to me that your pally tank doesn't have the skill to one tank this, espeically when you are three healing it.
* Two heal it. Keep the disc priest for the absorbs and have the shammy or the druid go dps, depending on which one has the better dps OS. This fight is EASILY two healed with the gear level your healers have and the hps they are outputting is absurdly low
* During empowered whirls, if the healers are having difficulty keeping everyone topped up, call a dps healer CD ie. shaman htt and ag
* Have your raid move into stack on the boss during the MC phase

This fight is challenging as people must being doing their jobs correctly. MCs is often the bane of less organised groups so really stress to people the need to switch and interrupt immediately, if needed, have assignments in the event that one of your more reliable interrupters gets MC'd. You have enough dps output to down this boss, its the boss mechanics that is destroying you.

[er1111]

Hey so I can't speak for dps nor healers, but solo tanking this fight as prot pally is super easy, especially at his ilv (quick armoury says its 570, let me know if I'm wrong).

Glyph:I don't like Divine Prot. glyph on 10m as he melees for nothing and we've got so many ways to deal with physical dmg, plus once adds gets empowered they hit for shadow dmg (on hm, assuming its the same on normal). Other than that I'd run Glyph of wog (or focused shield, you have really strong cleave dps), final wrath and alabaster shield.

Talents: With haste levels being soooo high and getting a free EF cast, I run divine purpose over HA or SW on 90% of fights, nets you an overall uptime increase on sotr and adds a bit of rng to an otherwise pretty stagnant rotation (always nice to make things more fun). If you intend to keep 3 healing I would definitely recommend having him take ES as it's the highest single target damage of the three (when you have like 300k vengeance it explodes for over 1m). If you swap to three heals have him take LH and use it for every whirl as the healing provided is pretty sweet with high vengeance. And oh my goodness I just saw on your logs 2 thing; he's running seal of truth instead of seal of insight. 99.9% of the time he should leave SoI on as the healing is ridiculous (times he could swap would be on siegecrafter add/when offtanking if hes got no dot on him). Secondly he's using sacred shield. Off the top of my head I think theck said as of 5.4 the healing done from EF is ~4x greater than SS. with the vengeance he gets from solo tanking if he takes EF and KEEPS A HIGH UPTIME ON IT (very very very important, I see he had about 80% uptime on SS so that's a good start) the healers shouldn't really need to touch him until stacks get high. That and our 4 piece gives us a free cast of EF/WoG makes it pretty OP.

During the transitions on normal I don't think you need an interrupt/stun rotation but correct me if I'm wrong. He should try and soak the annihilates that garrosh does. My rotation is GoaK (lasts until just after 4th stack if he pops it right before 1st lands) then on 5th I get a pain supp (here I usually pop DP as well seeing as i can never trust priest lol) then I use AD and Cloak proc to soak the last 2. When he comes down he can pop wings again, use ES, AS and HW by the time the boss melees him and its like 3-5m dmg depending on how lucky you get with crits. Unfortunately solo tanking you dont get the full 20s of capped vengeance but what can you do. I see he's got the rook's trinket equipped, I'd imagine its nice in transitions for the aoe but its survivable without it so if he's got thok's trinket I would highly recommend it.

In p2 he shouldn't need cds rolling on him until 7-8 stacks ish. Tanking him at 7 pop DP everytime, use personals when DP runs out and call for pain supp/ironbark when he knows he wont have anything for the next round (really important he gives healers a heads up). During whirls/desecrate make sure he's not use SotR, have him pool up a 6 HoPo sotr for when the boss starts whacking him again. Once you get empowered whirls its really important that he turns RF off and doesnt aoe (another reason I like glyph of focused shield) so that everyone can get their adds out. It's doable to just stack them up and live through it but its pretty dicey. P3 is exactly the same for him, during whirls your gonna need a shitload of raid CDs if you get a second whirl when that tank debuff explodes it hurts. Other than that have him try to cast ES at high vengeance levels and with trinket procs (assuming he takes the thok trinket).

Also I agree with the man above me, 2 healing is definitely the way to go, makes this fight worlds easier

If he's got any specific questions send me a pm and I'll see if I can help out

Best of luck

[Reinholder]

Plan out your major raid cds so you know who is using what and when. You have quite a few with a couple of healing tides, enhance AG (which can top people up quite quickly), tranq, devo aura, the priest stuff, smoke bomb etc.

I looked at the logs but they weren't in english so I couldn't understand that much I'm sorry. Basically though with all your raid cds available you should give 2 healing it a shot, and extra DPS should push the phases quicker which hopefully reduces the amount of times you need to deal with certain mechanics.

2 tanks and 2 healers is how we did it the first time. When we progressed on it we didn't find the raid dps difference between 1 tanking and 2 tanking to be worth the wipe risk, plus sharing vengeance the 2nd tank will do a nice chunk of dps anyway and will be able to kite the adds around in the final phase letting you focus down Garrosh. Hopefully that makes sense.

One last tip we used was to drop the first desecrated weapon in phase 2 on the top of the throne, then you don't have to waste any dps on it cause it's out of the way.

[Deja Thoris]

Your prot pala is terrible. (I'm being kind) He has absolutely no clue what he is doing. He needs to read some guides.

Heres some stuff he needs to fix. (Working off your 9:24 attempt)
1) Shield of the righteous. This is physical damage reduction (about 50%) for 3 seconds when used and costs 3 holy power. You should be looking at an absolute minimum uptime on that buff of 40%. Closer to 60% would be ideal. His uptime was less than 5%. This screws his survivability hopelessly.
2) Seal of insight. It heals you when you hit stuff. He had it active for less than 1/3 of the fight. The rest of the time he used Seal of truth which is beyond useless for prot. More survivability woes.
3) Hes using sacred shield which is rubbish. Eternal flame is the go-to talent on, well all fights. He needs to use it and use it properly.
4) Despite the fact hes probably about as tanky as a naked shadow priest given the above hes still using the dps cloak, He needs to use the tank one.
5) His rotation is bad or hes not hitting his buttons enough. The fight was about 570 seconds long so he should have hit crusader strike / hotr about 140 times. He used it a bit more than half of that. That holy power has to be used to hit shield of the righteous to get that buff uptime up to reduce his damage taken.
6) Hes using glyph of the battle healer. It used to be amazing. Now its utterly shit. It diverts Seal Of insight healing away from him and puts it on the raid. He needs to heal himself. Get rid of that glyph! He should use alabaster shield / Word of glory and final wrath on that fight.

Fight related stuff:
A lot of Garrosh damage is magical. He places a debuff on the tank that stacks in p2 and it only falls off each whirling corruption if you solo tank. He will get 7 stacks > whirl > 11 stacks > whirl > 11 stacks > Final whirl. He HAS to use unlgyphed divine protection on the 7th/11th/11th stack each time. He can throw in other CD's in between like guardian if needed.

I'd imagine theres scope for improvement for other players but imo fix the tank and you'll kill the boss. Well played paladins are unkillable Gods on this fight.

Edit: My post isn't phrased very positively, sorry! The advice is solid though.

[braeldiil]

I'd suggest changing up your strategy a bit - some small tweaks can make huge differences.

The key to the fight is to maximize phase 2 damage - phase 1 is just about everyone surviving, and phase 3 is always going to be a crazy burn.

Go 2 tanks, 2 heals, 6 dps. Designate 2 ranged dps (ideally your hunters, but awareness > dps here) and 1 heals as your "weapon team". Their job is to place the weapons and kill them as required. Everyone else stacks on the boss and turrets.

For phase 1, have the weapon team spread out in an arc along the back wall, dps on the outside. The dps on the left side (facing the throne) kills the engineer. Everyone else stacks just short of the other star's path and camps out. Weapon team moves away from the weapon puddle and kills the weapon. You spread so only 1 person has to move.

No one should use any cooldowns until he heals back to full. That's a great time to use short cooldowns. Remember that phase 1 damage is meaningless.

Do the transition, then back for phase 2. Weapon team runs out to the back edge of the room to drop the weapon - put a raid marker up so they can find it immediately. No one else moves for the entirety of the phase - they can just tunnel the boss. Only the weapon team runs around. As soon as the weapon hits, the weapon team runs to Garrosh for the MC. Break the MCs (tank AEs are usually enough), and weapon team runs out to the edge of the weapon pool to drop the next weapon. Use a cooldown or 2 for whirling. Drop the 2nd weapon, run in, break MC, run out to the edge of the 2nd weapon, cooldown for whirling, drop the 3rd weapon, run in for MC, out for weapon, back in for the last whirling. Again, only the weapon team moves - the rest of the raid turrets on Garrosh for the entire phase.

If you did it right, you have an arc of weapons across one side of the room. Now transition and come back. Weapon team runs up to the throne and leaves the weapon there. Run in, break MCs. If your dps is good, you can push him to 10% before he does the empowered whirling. If not, spread loosely to the other side of the room near the throne, spread the adds out and kill them, then push him to 10%.

As soon as he hits 10%, hero and go crazy. Weapon team stays out (wherever, as long as the weapon isn't on the raid) for the weapon, then books it in for the empowered MC. Everyone needs to switch to the MC'd people and interrupt and dps them. Break the mind control, spread out for empowered whirling. Don't kill any of these adds. This was especially important for our tanks - they were killing them by accident, and after 3-4 die they get scary. After empowered stack back up (except for the weapon team) and kill him.

Here's a log that will show you all the movements - just go to the replay tab and you can see the whole thing. http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...eplay&fight=16

[Dasani]

Just one little thing that may or may not help...

When you solo tank, your stacks in phase 2 and phase 3 typically fall off without you having to do anything on each whirl.

But this is not 100% of the time. Sometimes he will refresh the last stack at the last second after the whirl ends and when this happens and your tank has to suffer through 20+ stacks of debuffs you're in for a bad time.

I solo tanked this fight many many times and this happens somewhat frequently, so what I always did was just roll away from the group while he is whirling, kite him just long enough to make 100% sure the stacks fall off then bring him back. Has the added benefit of reducing damage to the raid because he's being moved away from them, but it'll reduce the damage done to him from your melee peeps unless they follow which instead increases the damage to them.

I never really cared enough to figure out if it was a specific whirl this happened on or what the other factors involved were, but it just happened a good bit and I got tired of dropping CDs on surviving through over 20 stacks of debuff so that is why I adjusted my tactics.

I haven't killed normal garrosh in a long time though, been farming heroic for more months than I can remember and it's a completely different ballgame in there. Other advice here is solid, but just wanted to point that out.

[Khorm]

Your prot pala is terrible. (I'm being kind) He has absolutely no clue what he is doing. He needs to read some guides.

Heres some stuff he needs to fix. (Working off your 9:24 attempt)
1) Shield of the righteous. This is physical damage reduction (about 50%) for 3 seconds when used and costs 3 holy power. You should be looking at an absolute minimum uptime on that buff of 40%. Closer to 60% would be ideal. His uptime was less than 5%. This screws his survivability hopelessly.

Haha, how does that even happen?

[Deleted]

Thanks all, especially Deja Thoris for his detailed tank analysis. Can somebody comment on the druid healer?

Another question regarding P3 tactic: would you recommend to ignore the adds and just nuke the boss as fast as possible?

[striderZA]

Your warlock's Immolate uptime is atrocious (<30% ?!), and far too little damage is coming from Chaos Bolt. Eight Chaos bolts in ~8 minute fight is absymal. Looking at the logs it seems like he literally stands there spamming Incinerate.

Also, two Dark Soul casts during a 7-8 minute fight is horrible, versus four expanded mind procs. Those need to be aligned as often as possible.

Also, his gemming setup makes no sense whatsoever. Five pieces of gear that has hit on and he still gems expertise (there's even a hit/expertise gem in there). No mastery gems is another no-go.

At ilvl 570 he should be using GoSac, and the havoc glyph is really not optimal for 10 man normal.

[Anzen]

The Shaman shouldn't be using Magma Totem at all, and should keep Searing Totem down pretty much the whole fight (unless Fire Elemental is down or the totem will be active for less than 15 seconds - transitions, boss dying, etc). I'd love to see how you guys do the fight though, it's pretty worrying his legendary cloak proc is doing more damage than Lightning Bolt; just how long are you in p1 for? His Flame Shock uptime is ok, could be improved, but I'd imagine that could be a consequence for the amount of time spent AoEing. A couple of gear inconsistencies but nothing major.

Regardless, not too bad tbh.

[Deleted]

Short overview about our tactic:

P1: completely stacked. We let the desecrated weapon hit in the middle of the camp and nuke it down. We do not move a single step. Only a hunter kills one of the engineers.

P2: Tank with Garrosh in the middle. Camp has two marked spots. After the first interim phase range DDs and heals run to spot#1, wait for the weapon. Run to Boss. Free the MC'd. Run to Spot #2. Kill Weapon at spot 1. Wait for Weapon, run to Boss, free MC'd, run to #1, and so on. When the empowered whirl comes, we stand away from each other. Running and MC'd healer often lead to tank deaths.

P3: not seen so often

AFAIK thats seems ok for me. Our biggest issue is that we reach P3 so rare, caused by dying of the tank or others.

Anzen, I forwarded your feedback to the elemental shaman. He asks for your opinion about his gear inconsistencies. Can you elaborate that a bit?

[Deleted]

That tactic is really solid yes. However like mentioned above you could try having 3 ranged step out and rest stays in...
If you combine more or less everything said you'll be golden I'm sure..

Overall :
Drop a healer - increase in dps will be really noticable.
It is 1tankable yes - but as someone mentioned above your tank has some issues. Either have him improve or help each other out using a 2nd tank.

P1: Stay stacked. You have a gazillion stuns available to you, and some hardcore AoE classes so use them. Enhance and ele has AoE stuns - Lock has an AoE stun. Hunters can spec into binding shot, but it can be messy, but the idea is there to basically keep em stunned. The downside of this is the amount of vengeance your tank will get - but it minimizes damage he takes again making it preferable to 2 heal.

P2: Like you said 2 marks but try having your ele and hunters be the "soakers".. have them step out to the marks ( plus they're some of the quickest to get back in ). I wouldn't suggest doing as someone mentioned above having a healer do it, if you 2 man heal it - 3 man go for it . Dance back and forth and kill MCs. Remember it's best to either move boss or have all move out for the whirlwinds if you struggle. Very important you stack right on top of eachother when you're on the melee for the MCs - especially the ele will love you as he can for 1 cleave, but 2ndly he should get symbiosis from the resto druid and can solarsilence them .

P3: As you haven't really seen it much there are several ways of doing it. Continue the P2 strat. Might even be beneficial to start in a corner and don't DPS weapons at all just move around them, but still kill your adds.
Healing here is generally the most paramount. An ele and an Enhance can dis out some nice heals with healing tide and AG so alternate these. Have your paladin bop which your druid when he tranqs so aggro doesn't eat him. if you get two whirls in p3 he can treeform the 2nd along with paladin DA. Other than that it's basically the same.
1 tanking 2 healing will mean you're in p3 alot quicker so don't use BL/hero untill p3

[braeldiil]

Short overview about our tactic:

P1: completely stacked. We let the desecrated weapon hit in the middle of the camp and nuke it down. We do not move a single step. Only a hunter kills one of the engineers.

P2: Tank with Garrosh in the middle. Camp has two marked spots. After the first interim phase range DDs and heals run to spot#1, wait for the weapon. Run to Boss. Free the MC'd. Run to Spot #2. Kill Weapon at spot 1. Wait for Weapon, run to Boss, free MC'd, run to #1, and so on. When the empowered whirl comes, we stand away from each other. Running and MC'd healer often lead to tank deaths.

P3: not seen so often

AFAIK thats seems ok for me. Our biggest issue is that we reach P3 so rare, caused by dying of the tank or others.

Anzen, I forwarded your feedback to the elemental shaman. He asks for your opinion about his gear inconsistencies. Can you elaborate that a bit?

Okay, phase 1 doesn't matter, so do whatever you like there. As long as everyone survives, you're good.

Phase 2, you're wasting a lot of damage running around and killing weapons. That's damage that's not going on Garrosh, which means you start to run into his soft-enrage mechanic (empowered whirling). You also don't need the space - if he drops more than 3 weapons in phase 3 you've already lost, so half the room is plenty.

The goal is to get through phase 2 with 0 or 1 empowered whirling corruptions. To do that, you probably need to ignore the weapons - drop them in a '(' shape along one side of the room at max range from the boss. You only need to send 3 people out to place the weapon, so let the rest of the raid sit on the boss. Non-empowered whirlings are easily soakable with 1 or 2 cooldowns, and you've got plenty of shaman to off-heal, too. So most of the raid should just sit right where they land after the transition and go crazy, while a small team places the weapons off to the side. The weapon team runs in after each weapon drops, then back out after the MC.

As a note, when we switched to this rather than moving the entire team Garrosh ended up 10% lower at the 2nd transition on the next pull. And we got another 10% when we stopped killing the weapons (earlier attempts).

[Deleted]

I do not understand how it is possible to "soak" the desecrated weapon with 3 range DDs. I thought the weapon can hit any heal oder range? What does it help to have 3 people standing outside when the weapon targets a healer standing near the tank?

[Herecius]

I do not understand how it is possible to "soak" the desecrated weapon with 3 range DDs. I thought the weapon can hit any heal oder range? What does it help to have 3 people standing outside when the weapon targets a healer standing near the tank?

Nope. As long as the rest of your raid is properly standing in melee range of the boss - that is to say, with their heads stuffed up into Garrosh's buttcheeks - it won't go to them. You just need a small group to go and lure the weapon out from the raid.

[Anzen]

Anzen, I forwarded your feedback to the elemental shaman. He asks for your opinion about his gear inconsistencies. Can you elaborate that a bit?

Well from his gear, it's apparent he's going for a Mastery build (I, and most other shaman would agree with this). He's using a Haste enchant on his gloves though despite there being an equivalent Mastery one. He's also gemming pure Intellect gems in a couple of red sockets (Ring & Shoulders), he should be gemming Artful in those. Finally, instead of the Purified gem he's using in his shoulders, he should be using a Zen gem.

As I said though, just slight inconsistencies, nothing major. The shaman actually looks like one of the better players in the raid.

[Deleted]

Another question regarding P3 tactic: would you recommend to ignore the adds and just nuke the boss as fast as possible?

I wouldn't. It's very risky and can go wrong very quickly. Would be a shame to get so close to the kill and then blow it for that. I'd only ignore adds if there was literally just a few percent left of health.

Your tank's lack of active mitigation has already been pointed out; that is the most obvious concern and needs dealing with. Be interesting to see what difference that would make.