Washington Post - Snowden leaks provide detailed picture of NSA surveillance

[ringpriest]

The Washington Post appears to have beaten Glen Greenwald's promised but so far non-existant release of NSA details, although their story, " In NSA-intercepted data, those not targeted far outnumber the foreigners who are" appears to differ in some details from what Greenwald was rumored to release.

From the above story,

The surveillance files highlight a policy dilemma that has been aired only abstractly in public. There are discoveries of considerable intelligence value in the intercepted messages — and collateral harm to privacy on a scale that the Obama administration has not been willing to address.

Among the most valuable contents — which The Post will not describe in detail, to avoid interfering with ongoing operations — are fresh revelations about a secret overseas nuclear project, double-dealing by an ostensible ally, a military calamity that befell an unfriendly power, and the identities of aggressive intruders into U.S. computer networks.

Months of tracking communications across more than 50 alias accounts, the files show, led directly to the 2011 capture in Abbottabad of Muhammad Tahir Shahzad, a Pakistan-based bomb builder, and Umar Patek, a suspect in a 2002 terrorist bombing on the Indonesian island of Bali. At the request of CIA officials, The Post is withholding other examples that officials said would compromise ongoing operations.

Many other files, described as useless by the analysts but nonetheless retained, have a startlingly intimate, even voyeuristic quality. They tell stories of love and heartbreak, illicit sexual liaisons, mental-health crises, political and religious conversions, financial anxieties and disappointed hopes. The daily lives of more than 10,000 account holders who were not targeted are catalogued and recorded nevertheless.

There's some good news for the government. The report provides the public with its first glimpse into actual NSA successes - something heretofore basically nonexistent, and that there is a modicum of effort made to protect the information of US citizens. There's also no evidence so far of targeting political opposition or government officials. (Except perhaps President-elect Obama? The article isn't particularly clear.)

But on the damaging side, it also proves that government officials were wrong when they claimed Snowden could not have accessed data intercepts obtained under FISA authorization, which he obviously did (unless we're looking at additional leakers - the Washington Post claims this all came from Snowden). It also highlights how, freed of the need for probable cause and warrants - the NSA has swept up and stored information about huge numbers of Americans and others who were not legitimate targets, and that the government has been lying about the true extent of surveillance. Also, even operating with sweeping authorization, internal communications show that NSA employees regularly folded, spindled, and mutilated the rules they operated under.

In my opinion, we're going to see NSA cheerleaders trumpeting the successful operations, while trying to obfuscate the difference between "targeted" intercepts and the (illegal) mass data dragnets run under different programs. I find it particularly interesting that this information emerges immediately after the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board approved of such targeted programs - before the public at large(and likely parts of the government) had any understanding of how vast even "targeted" surveillance ranged, and how many innocent Americans have their personal information stored by the NSA.

tl;dr - NSA surveillance has had successes, Obama admin lied about extent of targeted surveillance and was wrong (or lied) about what Snowden had access to, massive amounts of personal information on non-targets is permanently stored.

[Masark]

"We're not spying on everyone on purpose! It just...happens. Honest! But we're still going to keep that unintentional stuff."

I expect Skrosec in here any time to rush to their defence.

[Bakis]

I only read Washington Posts long article about it on my phone.
They concluded 9 out of 10 red flags that got registered had nothing to do with the intended targets whatsoever.

On a more actual matter, we can wait and watch what the US spy (german origin) who got cought will add to the mix.
The US is as dependant on european allies as well as vice verca but there is a limit, especially in Germany the most important ally after the UK and that limit is probably reached by now.

[taliey]

I only read Washington Posts long article about it on my phone.
They concluded 9 out of 10 red flags that got registered had nothing to do with the intended targets whatsoever.

On a more actual matter, we can wait and watch what the US spy (german origin) who got cought will add to the mix.
The US is as dependant on european allies as well as vice verca but there is a limit, especially in Germany the most important ally after the UK and that limit is probably reached by now.

The NSA revelations destroyed any goodwill that Germans had for Obama.

Obama used to have 70%+ support during the 2012 elections, but is now at approximately 40%.

[Rukentuts]

The NSA revelations destroyed any goodwill that Germans had for Obama.

Which is funny considering their own government spied on their telephones and even had it on their bills not too long ago.

I guess the American public aren't the only ones apt for forgetting recent history.

[oxymoronic]

The NSA revelations destroyed any goodwill that Germans had for Obama.

Obama used to have 70%+ support during the 2012 elections, but is now at approximately 40%.

why does germany think they so special? or they so naive as to think this isnt happening everywhere to some extent? are they really that ignorant? and to think obama himself had anything to do with it? wow, special kind of stupidity there.

[ringpriest]

Just for fun, I'm going to throw out my guesses on the "valuable contents" of the super-secret files:

"fresh revelations about a secret overseas nuclear project" - The Iranians don't have one, but they've thought about it.

"double-dealing by an ostensible ally" - Pakistan is still cutting deals with the Taliban (The Saudis and Iraq are so obvious they don't count)

"a military calamity that befell an unfriendly power" - the North Koreans fucked up (doubtful anyone else could actually keep something major secret)

and "the identities of aggressive intruders into U.S. computer networks" - evidence that they're Chinese government agents. (Or script kiddies somewhere, which isn't much of a national security threat.)

[Olo]

I only read Washington Posts long article about it on my phone.
They concluded 9 out of 10 red flags that got registered had nothing to do with the intended targets whatsoever.

On a more actual matter, we can wait and watch what the US spy (german origin) who got cought will add to the mix.
The US is as dependant on european allies as well as vice verca but there is a limit, especially in Germany the most important ally after the UK and that limit is probably reached by now.

Apparently he was whoring himself out. The US didn't even try to turn him. Germany is gonna be pretty disappointed if they think the US is going to turn away an essay asset like that. It's not clear, but it sounds like he was caught trying to expand his client list to Russia.

s'not the first time that has happened either. German officials offer to sell out their country for a student visas for their kids.

[bondshai]

I only read Washington Posts long article about it on my phone.

[Cybran]

http://www.dw.de/us-irritated-by-ger...n-all-1573-rdf

Meanwhile, Mike Rogers, chairman of the US House of Representatives intelligence committee accused Germany of throwing a "temper tantrum." Rogers told US news broadcaster CNN that US information had "saved German lives" and that Berlin was avoiding an "adult conversation" on the issue.

Very amusing developments from the latest spying scandal. The American government is "irritated" that the Germans kicked the chief of the CIA in Berlin out. How dare their vassals defend their privacy!?

[Erolian]

In some ways the only thing they really did wrong as a government controlling their nation was being caught. The things they do already are illegal and this proved that they can go on at a large scale without the population knowing anything for massive amounts of time. Sure they'll have to make an example out of someone but will things like this stop because we make a new law telling them to? Wait much of it was already illegal? Guess that won't stop them.

[Ausr]

The US spies on other nations that spy. More at 11.

[Bakis]

Apparently he was whoring himself out. The US didn't even try to turn him. Germany is gonna be pretty disappointed if they think the US is going to turn away an essay asset like that. It's not clear, but it sounds like he was caught trying to expand his client list to Russia.

s'not the first time that has happened either. German officials offer to sell out their country for a student visas for their kids.

Sorry for the late reply but thanks necro. It doesnt really matter from a german point of view, if true it could mean he would be just as likely to keep on selling it to other nations (Russia) and as far as the germans are concerned the US could have informed them.

Now this being a late reply and all it has been concluded that this person was having mediocre information at best but there was another bust post this one which was a serious one. I have no information of it though just read something a few days about comments by an official (who wanted to stay anon) about another breach , one that had access to high grade quality information and it was also US-spying related.

US is really undermining itself to a certain degree with all this paranoid spying on allies. One can argue that it has value, that there can never be too much information in itself.
Sure but the question is not about the value of the information per say but about the long term cost that it inpose on the trans-atlantic cooperations which the US heavily depend on. I mean the fuckheads keep getting cought wether it are spies or Snowden publications.

[mmokri]

Washington Post seems not so 'independent' media.

I mean they speak with gov by phone every other article.

[ringpriest]

http://www.dw.de/us-irritated-by-ger...n-all-1573-rdf


Very amusing developments from the latest spying scandal. The American government is "irritated" that the Germans kicked the chief of the CIA in Berlin out. How dare their vassals defend their privacy!?

Oh, it gets even "better"': William Binney, (who along with fellow NSA whistleblower Thomas Drake, recently testified to the Bundestag) spoke at a journalism conference in London where he said,

"At least 80% of fibre-optic cables globally go via the US”, Binney said. “This is no accident and allows the US to view all communication coming in. At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US. The NSA lies about what it stores.”

[Deleted]

why does germany think they so special? or they so naive as to think this isnt happening everywhere to some extent? are they really that ignorant? and to think obama himself had anything to do with it? wow, special kind of stupidity there.

They ARE special, as every one of your allies. You behave like this, you lose your support, you lose your ally.
If you think you're so mighty and every ally you have is your slave, I wish one day you realize that you're nothing without them.

You don't fucking spy on your allies. You don't spy on your citizens. People are so brainwashed when they think it's fine to do so...

[Slant]

why does germany think they so special? or they so naive as to think this isnt happening everywhere to some extent? are they really that ignorant? and to think obama himself had anything to do with it? wow, special kind of stupidity there.

Nobody in Germany think we're special. Nobody thinks Obama is direclty involved in these things. But he is the head of your state and should do his job, ie, know about this shit. What kind of Mickey Mouse government do you run over there if you can break all kinds of allies trust without informing the dude who is ultimately made responsible for everything you do? Who's being naive here now?

[ringpriest]

Nobody in Germany think we're special. Nobody thinks Obama is direclty involved in these things. But he is the head of your state and should do his job, ie, know about this shit. What kind of Mickey Mouse government do you run over there if you can break all kinds of allies trust without informing the dude who is ultimately made responsible for everything you do? Who's being naive here now?

What kind of government do we have here in the US? I think this is illustrative: CIA Didn't Bother Informing Obama About Blown Cover Of German Double Agent Before His Call With Merkel

[Cybran]

http://www.dw.de/more-than-a-dozen-u...ild/a-17782082

More than a dozen US spies infiltrate German ministries says Bild

The CIA has recruited more than a dozen spies in several German government ministries, according to the Bild am Sonntag tabloid paper. Earlier, Chancellor Merkel said she doubts the US will end its aggressive espionage.

This just keeps getting better and better. The funniest part is that the German side is rolling over and taking it.

[Faroth]

I only read Washington Posts long article about it on my phone.
They concluded 9 out of 10 red flags that got registered had nothing to do with the intended targets whatsoever.

I remember when it was first coming to light a data security firm commented in an article that the NSA was essentially "filling a warehouse with as much hay as they could get their hands on in the event they're told there was a needle in it." They then have all the hay with the needle, but they've amassed tons of it to go through after the fact, likely defeating any real chance of a speedy reaction.

What particularly bothers me about the quoted portion of the OP:

Many other files, described as useless by the analysts but nonetheless retained, have a startlingly intimate, even voyeuristic quality. They tell stories of love and heartbreak, illicit sexual liaisons, mental-health crises, political and religious conversions, financial anxieties and disappointed hopes. The daily lives of more than 10,000 account holders who were not targeted are catalogued and recorded nevertheless.

Illicit sexual liaisons - or dirty laundry to use against people who weren't targeted but kept anyway
Mental health crises - more ammo to leverage against someone in the future if ever needed
Political and religious conversions - Ohhh, so now we're REALLY keeping dirt on who to target
Financial anxieties - another tool that can easily be leveraged against people

All I keep thinking of is the Will Smith/Gene Hackman movie "Enemy of the State"

A law abiding citizen gets unintentionally targeted and the government easily destroys his life. Discrediting someone is crucial and all it takes is a few policy changes for normal citizens to become someone to be squashed, silenced, and dismissed and they have a blank check to amass anything and everything they need to do it.