Letter from Death Row Inmate (since killed)

[Battlegrounds]

Numbers don't lie, chief. Don't know what to tell you.

I know, and my numbers proved you wrong.

Alley oop!

I was expecting a study that showed bias in prison studies. All you've done is link to a list of studies. So, I reject your earlier statement as nonsense.

If the population is low, wouldn't one prison hold a higher number of prisoners per capita than in the U.S.? One prison would most certainly have a higher impact than one prison would in the States. That just means we would need more than one prison of the sort here.

No, we wouldn't. You've already demonstrated that this one prison's recidivism rate is only slightly lower than all the prisons in Norway. Ergo, the concept doesn't work.

That's not how it works. What proof do you have that they don't count readmission into those facilities as part of their recidivism rate? You claim that there's no way to know if they're be readmitted to the facilities, so therefore, they are (which doesn't make sense). You're assuming that there's some sort of malfeasance going on without providing any evidence of the sort. Your article provides no information one way or the other. All of those gap were filled in by your assumptions.

Numbers don't lie. You can't deny the fact Oregon's rate went down when they stopped incarcerating lesser criminals. Oregon claims the number is in regard to prisoners, nothing else. If you want to claim that number holds more than prisoner statistics, then that's on you to prove because I believe Oregon when they say it's in regard to prisoners.

The only assumption I've made is that the statistics regarding community corrections programs and treatment centers aren't made public, and that they would contain some sort of success/failure rate. I'm not naive enough to assume they would have a 100% success rate. Should be common sense that a certain percentage of people that would have ended up back in prison are the same people that are going to have to repeat these programs. But, some people lack common sense. Fair enough.

[Zvinny]

Put em in the hole.

So a guy serving a month or so for minor offenses refuses to work, and gets put in the hole until he does work, or until...when, exactly? Eventually he's going to cost the state more to house him than he could ever have repaid in his month of work.

[Zython]

I was expecting a study that showed bias in prison studies. All you've done is link to a list of studies. So, I reject your earlier statement as nonsense.

I never said anything about bias in prison studies?

No, we wouldn't. You've already demonstrated that this one prison's recidivism rate is only slightly lower than all the prisons in Norway. Ergo, the concept doesn't work.

From the article:

The teacher explained that all prisons in Norway worked on the same principle, which he believed was the reason the country had, at less than 30%, the lowest reoffending figures in Europe and less than half the rate in the UK.

The reoffending rate for those released from Bastoy speaks for itself. At just 16%, it is the lowest in Europe. But who are the prisoners on Bastoy? Are they the goodie-goodies of the system?

~Half the rate doesn't sound like "slightly lower" to me.

Numbers don't lie. You can't deny the fact Oregon's rate went down when they stopped incarcerating lesser criminals. Oregon claims the number is in regard to prisoners, nothing else.

I'm not doubting Oregon. I'm doubting you. The source you cited mentions nothing about the methodology of how Oregon measures recidivism. If you have an additional source explaining that, then I would like to see it.

The only assumption I've made is that the statistics regarding community corrections programs and treatment centers aren't made public,

That's a pretty big assumption.

and that they would contain some sort of success/failure rate. I'm not naive enough to assume they would have a 100% success rate. Should be common sense that a certain percentage of people that would have ended up back in prison are the same people that are going to have to repeat these programs. But, some people lack common sense. Fair enough.

Sure, but if the percentage is low enough, then it can be considered an improvement.

[Battlegrounds]

I never said anything about bias in prison studies?

Sure you did. You said people that are subject to higher crime rates blame the prisoners.

~Half the rate doesn't sound like "slightly lower" to me.

That article made a generalization about the rate (i.e. " less than 30%"). The exact number is 20%. Thus, 20% versus 16%. 4% less is slightly lower.

I'm not doubting Oregon. I'm doubting you. The source you cited mentions nothing about the methodology of how Oregon measures recidivism. If you have an additional source explaining that, then I would like to see it.

Recidivism is defined as anyone who was "convicted of a felony at any time within the specified number of months following release from prison". See? They're only counting people released from prison, not people that were released from other programs.

Sure, but if the percentage is low enough, then it can be considered an improvement.

Subjective, but that doesn't change the fact that such a percentage exists. Which was the point you seemed all to eager to dismiss.

[Mayhem]

just stumbled over this

[ItachiZaku]

I don't give a shit about what you "believe" do you honestly think the justice system is infallible?!

lol Maybe he doesn't give a shit about what you believe either.

See, I'm a bit on the fence with this. After reading about how cunts like Abe Lincoln ordered the execution of my people, I don't give 2 fucks about this "country" and reading about how the prisons are corrupt and how elections are bought, how illegal acts by the president go unchecked etc It's all more or less us vs them.

- - - Updated - - -

So a guy serving a month or so for minor offenses refuses to work, and gets put in the hole until he does work, or until...when, exactly? Eventually he's going to cost the state more to house him than he could ever have repaid in his month of work.

He lost that right when he broke the law. Break the law, you are punished. You lose your rights. Play nice, you get these things back. Why is that so hard to comprehend? I fully agree that the system is flawed, top to bottom, but at the end of the day... to quote a great, great man..."STOP BREAKING THE LAW, ASSHOLE!"

[Themius]

lol Maybe he doesn't give a shit about what you believe either.

See, I'm a bit on the fence with this. After reading about how cunts like Abe Lincoln ordered the execution of my people, I don't give 2 fucks about this "country" and reading about how the prisons are corrupt and how elections are bought, how illegal acts by the president go unchecked etc It's all more or less us vs them.

- - - Updated - - -



He lost that right when he broke the law. Break the law, you are punished. You lose your rights. Play nice, you get these things back. Why is that so hard to comprehend? I fully agree that the system is flawed, top to bottom, but at the end of the day... to quote a great, great man..."STOP BREAKING THE LAW, ASSHOLE!"

Here's the thing, he doesn't have to give a shit about what I believe, because what I said isn't a belief, it is fact. It is a fact that mistakes have been made, and continue to be made. There is no "belief" in that. It's like looking at a cat and saying "Well I don't believe that's a cat." It doesn't change the fact though now does it?

So... a guy who smoked heroine and is arrested for it, didn't hurt anyone, he's just an addict... is an asshole if he doesn't want to work? The reason it's like slavery is that they have to work, and if they don't work, just like slaves, they get thrown into a little hole by themselves, which will drive them crazy and does way way way way more harm than any good.