Mike Morhaime replies to open letter over diversity in Blizzard games.

[pateuvasiliu]

Why are RL (and in my opinion wrong) stereotypes being placed into a fantasy world? This is just complete insanity to me.

Because, like in reality, males are bigger and stronger.

This isn't anime, where the 60 kilo woman picks up the 150 kg bodybuilder.

Go watch that if you want shit storytelling.

(and in my opinion wrong)

Your opinion is delusional, then.

The fastest woman in the world would not make top 100 in the male league.

The strongest woman in the world would not compare to the top 50 men.

It's just reality and you have to deal with it.

Saying equality bla bla bla doesn't change biology and biology dictates that when it comes to physical activities men will always surpass women.

[Manabomb]

This just in.

The leader of the motherfucking dragon aspects isn't as iconic as Garrosh Hellscream.

Really?!

Or the Dragon aspect of Nature.

Or one of the most powerful mages left alive and trained by Antonidas.

Hell I'd say even Sylvannas is more iconic than Illidan and Malfurion combined because they are extremely boring characters.

I could list off more good, prevalent or interesting female characters, but I feel like I've made my point here.

[THE Bigzoman]

Actually I often do MMA, so... way to pick on my Family person you are responding to

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Well I am glad they didn't run Lord of the rings by taking a story about friendship and sexulaizing it

The annoucment about Albus Dumbledore being gay with Gellert Grindelwald came to mind. Utterly pointless addition to his story.

In what way did that enhance Dumbledore's past rocky relationship with him other then add the fact that they fucked each other?

[Pandapuncher]

Why are RL (and in my opinion wrong) stereotypes being placed into a fantasy world? This is just complete insanity to me.

And don't start with me about 'nature' this and that. I've played a central part in gorean communities for a long time where I already had to deal with enough loonies that really believed that nature decided that man was the natural Master and women the natural slave.

Seriously it's the biggest load of nonsense I've seen, even with full focus on military and combat training, like there is in the RL army and there would've been back in the days, some women just do more effort and work much harder than some other men and outperform most men physically and athletically. It's also a myth that all women are built the same physically, some women have a body-structure which is a lot more butch and sturdy than the body-structure some men have.

Well. male orcs are bigger than female orcs.


Also fuck orcs, night elves are completely female dominate. So what's your point? In no senario, if you take a man and a woman, both peak condition. Will one beat the other. Unless, and only unless the female had martial training.

[pateuvasiliu]

The annoucment about Albus Dumbledore being gay with Gellert Grindelwald came to mind. Utterly pointless addition to his story.

WHAT?

Childhood ruined.

Albus was just a creep trying to get Harry.

[Deleted]

Nah, they just inserted an elf womyn in the Hobbit, and ruined Tolkien's racial layout in the film too. Way to go PJ, you're so tolerant!

I'm pretty certain it had nothing to do with equality, more they wanted to put a "hot" girl in the cast and add a soppy love story.

Which I'm assuming is the point of the open letter, they want strong female characters. Imagine the Garrosh story but with Sylvanas, and we had to attack the Undercity instead of Orgrimmar, now that would've been some raid and story.

[Mouri Kogorou]

Why are RL (and in my opinion wrong) stereotypes being placed into a fantasy world? This is just complete insanity to me.

And don't start with me about 'nature' this and that. I've played a central part in gorean communities for a long time where I already had to deal with enough loonies that really believed that nature decided that man was the natural Master and women the natural slave.

Seriously it's the biggest load of nonsense I've seen, even with full focus on military and combat training, like there is in the RL army and there would've been back in the days, some women just do more effort and work much harder than some other men and outperform most men physically and athletically. It's also a myth that all women are built the same physically, some women have a body-structure which is a lot more butch and sturdy than the body-structure some men have.

you need to understand:

1- we are not denying the effort of females in any job/role
2- we understand that diversity is nice

but, they can not come in situations where it will destroy 20+ years of lore and gameplay. everything will come at it's right time, you need patience. as i said before, they already introduced Yrel for WoD and we hope she kicks ass.

[Pandapuncher]

I'm pretty certain it had nothing to do with equality, more they wanted to put a "hot" girl in the cast and add a soppy love story.

They had to make the middle movie more interesting (even though it was better than the first)

I actually liked her character.

I mean, in the lord of the rings, Alwyen had like a 0 role in the books

[THE Bigzoman]

WHAT?

Childhood ruined.

Albus was just a creep trying to get Harry.

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/20...nd-scores-more

[Pandapuncher]

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/20...nd-scores-more

Yeah, it's a thing. Kind of, I don't get the point. But whatever

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I wanna also throw out that Mike only ever says anything if it's a real PR issue. like the political correct people who got all upset that the metal band made fun of the alliance

[Wildberry]

That doesn't make them queens. I never said they are unimportant characters, so calm down. But someone called them actual queens, which is wrong. I didn't bring up the title discussion, someone else did. If Tyrande is a queen, then Malfurion is a king. Sorry, but that's nonsense. They aren't king and queen.

And yet the role they play is strikingly similar to that of a Queen. Sylvanas, for the record, is actually a queen. So way to go there, hotshot.

They don't have to change the story to make females into chieftains, but they still focus mostly on male characters. They created this expansion at some point and they could've chosen to instead not focus that heavily on all Warchief.

And yet those Warlords* are the main focus of the expansion, they're the big names, they're the major players in this story. It's not misogynist, it's not "stronk womyn not being represented," it's just this particular story.

Aggra,

Either an infant or unborn. She is similar in age to Thrall, who would have been born after the Dark Portal opened.

Garona,

Unnaturally aged by Gul'dan in the MU, we have reason to believe that he doesn't have as much magical power, nor as much political sway. The rape child of an Orc and a Draenei isn't likely to be a major player, when the sole reason for her unnatural aging doesn't exist anymore.

Griselda,

Unnaturally aged as well. See Garona.

Draka

Durotan's mate, she'll play a role, but not a major one, since Orcish society places Durotan as the leader and not Draka.

Rulkar.

Rulkhan* is actually helping the player oppose Ner'zhul in Shadowmoon Valley, she seems to be fairly important.

Or make new ones up, as a lot of people like that better anyway.

You can't "make new ones up" in a story focusing on things that already exist. Don't be silly.

To say that "our hands are tied" because back in WC2 all chieftains were male is nonsense. Don't make a story about all the chieftains then. Make story about some of the chieftains and include other characters.

You mean, change the focus of the expansion to suit your feminist worldview? That's an awfully entitled sentiment you've just shared.

know the lore quite well, nobody needs to tell me anything here.

Obviously you don't considering I had to inform you about the unnatural aging of Griselda and Garona.

Illidan and Arthas. We're talking about the icons of Warcraft. Nobody said that there weren't any female characters in the game. We're talking about the most important ones. And you can argue all you want about how important Whitemane, or Vanessa VanCleef were, they don't reach the ranks of Illidan or Arthas. It's not even about what you like personally. I find Lilian Voss much more interesting than Uther the Lightbringer. Yet there is no doubt which one of the two is the more iconic character.

Jaina, Sylvanas, Alexstrasza and Azshara are in the ranks of Illidan and Arthas. Take off your Womyn goggles and read the lore, please.

[Cows For Life]

What? That has nothing to do with me personally, i couldnt care less. The thing is, all i see lately is a FUCKING outcry about every single little thing this company does, and believe it or not if id have to choose, id take their side any time.

This is going too far, i dont know if its the overall behaviour of our society lately, some kind of the "special snowflake" syndrome as someone said in the begining, but this shit needs to stop. Too much is fucking too much...

Sure. You threw an incredible amount of vitriol towards a person you've never met, because that person leveled a criticism against a game that you two played, and you're not taking it personally? You called somebody you don't know a **** because she criticized a stupid game.

Is WoW one of the things above criticism?

TBH outside of threads arguing over what hardcores and casuals "deserve", I never see the same level of vitriol as shown in threads that critique representation of gender/race/sexuality/etc vs when criticism is aimed at say Metzen's voice acting or kung fu pandas.

that's because WoW is a game not a movie.
You are not watching characters do shit. YOU yourself is the one doing shit. The game revolves around you, the player, saving the world and doing all these heroic blah blah

Plus, the player plays themselves, essentially a no-name hero. Its not like Warcraft 3 where you technically play as the hero characters, you play as a big blank.

Actually it doesn't sound like a blank slate to me.

At least some of them. Others are simply exaggerating. And a slight few legitimately did happen to run across a publisher represented by a dude who's been in cryostasis since the 1930s.

So actual developers and directors coming out and saying it = all "shadowy" so you retreat to an even more vague and nebulous position. You know it's a "slight few"? You know it's a dinosaur?

^ Also wow is a kids game, and sexuality really doesn't need to play a part

But slavery, plague, war, death, mass murder, and genocide need to play their parts?

[Tuok]

There is nothing physically unrealistic about a woman possibly being the physically strongest and most fit member of a real life human society.
.

Its beyond unrealistic. If you don't understand that you need to go back to basic human anatomy classes. Men and women's bodies are very different and as far as physical strength and agility is concerned, men have a much higher ceiling.

You do not get to ignore basic facts.

[Dreknar20]

Stop spreading sexist nonsense.

Its not sexist, its reality.
Men have generally been more physically stronger than females. It has been that way since humans have existed.

[Pandapuncher]

But slavery, plague, war, death, mass murder, and genocide need to play their parts?

Any of those things really covered in game? not really. it's glanced over

[Wildberry]

You do not get to ignore basic facts.

Don't you know? His anecdotes trump basic facts. If you say otherwise, you're a sexist pig.

[Dreknar20]

The rape child of an Orc and a Draenei isn't likely to be a major player, when the sole reason for her unnatural aging doesn't exist anymore.

Does she not play a role?
Could recall in some beta footage where she tries to off Khadgar on orders from Gul'dan, unless that wasent Garona.

[Cows For Life]

I'll say it again, since you missed it. Orc culture is based 90% on Spartan Culture. and if high school history class taught me anything. Orc women would be allowed to fight, but they would never of been allowed to lead. Because, in Orc lore. A warcheif or warlord. Can be challenged for leadership of their clan in combat. And in no weapons, hand to hand combat. a Woman would always lose.

I find this post and your prior one very ironic considering the number of people in this thread who are trying to argue everything in the RPG is a blank slate, don't drag the real world into this, etc.

[Wildberry]

Does she not play a role?
Could recall in some beta footage where she tries to off Khadgar on orders from Gul'dan, unless that wasent Garona.

Could have been, I haven't seen it. If Garona's around Gul'dan does possess the capability to unnaturally age things; however, that still rules out Garona, as Blackhand isn't in cahoots with Gul'dan this time around.

[Deleted]

Its not sexist, its reality.

And WoW isn't reality. Not hard to imagine in a game where gnomes can carry huge swords that women have equal strength to men.