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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    she should know that the Horde leadership was butting heads with Garrosh since the Cataclysm. It doesn't make any sense for her to be mad at the entire Horde.
    It make a lot of sense for her to be angry at them. Not necessarily homocidal, but anger is more than justified. They were complicit with his actions by not preventing them or attempting to do at least some form of damage control on their own reputations when it happened. Seriously, take your eyes away from the outside and look from her perspective on this: when the bombing happened, Vol'jin, Baine and Lor'themar didn't send messages of condolence to her and insinuate they were going to revolt. They didn't do jack until Garrosh started killing other Horde members directly.

    They were like the soldiers standing on either side of the doors while one man walked in and gunned down a family at their dinner table because the father was associated with terrorists. Jaina looked out at the Horde and saw only a lack of uprising, correctly so, when it mattered most.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by WanderingBreezes View Post
    It make a lot of sense for her to be angry at them. Not necessarily homocidal, but anger is more than justified. They were complicit with his actions by not preventing them or attempting to do at least some form of damage control on their own reputations when it happened. Seriously, take your eyes away from the outside and look from her perspective on this: when the bombing happened, Vol'jin, Baine and Lor'themar didn't send messages of condolence to her and insinuate they were going to revolt. They didn't do jack until Garrosh started killing other Horde members directly.

    They were like the soldiers standing on either side of the doors while one man walked in and gunned down a family at their dinner table because the father was associated with terrorists. Jaina looked out at the Horde and saw only a lack of uprising, correctly so, when it mattered most.
    Some bitterness would be justified, but not to the level that we got. Once Garrosh had been overthrown she should have been satisfied but instead she seems to think that the Horde are going to betray her again, including Thrall for Light's sake. It just makes no sense for Jaina to suddenly distrust Thrall like that.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  3. #283

  4. #284
    Aerith Primrose. A sacrifice must be made to purify the world.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    And yet he didn't destroy Theramore with the help of Vol'jin, or Baine, or Sylvanas or Lor'themar, or Gallywix. And especially not Thrall.
    yes he did, Vol'Jin and Baine were both part of the attack on theramore whose purpose was to destroy it
    and the blood elves and undead send their own representatives, all of the horde was united in the attack on theramore
    the whole thing with "omg he used a mana bomb we didn't do nothing!" is quite frankly laughable, if 2 people agree to go stab a guy to death but one shoots him instead once stabbing proves to not be effective enough the second guy doesn't get to claim innocent of the whole act, he still agreed to go and stab a guy and even delivered some wounds himself
    horde, including Vol'jin, Baine and some blood elves and undead went to theramore to destroy it, theramore got destroyed, they are all equally guilty of it

    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    And that's the thing that Jaina was mad about - so far as we know she didn't speak out against any other of his military actions in Cataclysm. And even if Theramore soured her to those actions retroactively, she should know that the Horde leadership was butting heads with Garrosh since the Cataclysm. It doesn't make any sense for her to be mad at the entire Horde.
    over the succession, all the leaders were perfectly fine with slaughtering alliance left and right, garrosh even had to tell some of them to go easy on the atrocities until he started to attack other leaders and their people

    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    Also I think if Anduin actually stops being a naive mary sue he could make a good king. I'd rather see some leadership struggles than Varian ruling as the just High King for several expansions.
    I will never support a traitor like him to be made king in the cannon, he can rot in hell

  6. #286
    Over 9000! Hyve's Avatar
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    Thrall. It would've been a more epic storyline if he died somewhere in Cataclysm.

  7. #287
    Jaina

    and it's not even close.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Enosh View Post
    yes he did, Vol'Jin and Baine were both part of the attack on theramore whose purpose was to destroy it
    and the blood elves and undead send their own representatives, all of the horde was united in the attack on theramore
    the whole thing with "omg he used a mana bomb we didn't do nothing!" is quite frankly laughable, if 2 people agree to go stab a guy to death but one shoots him instead once stabbing proves to not be effective enough the second guy doesn't get to claim innocent of the whole act, he still agreed to go and stab a guy and even delivered some wounds himself
    horde, including Vol'jin, Baine and some blood elves and undead went to theramore to destroy it, theramore got destroyed, they are all equally guilty of it


    over the succession, all the leaders were perfectly fine with slaughtering alliance left and right, garrosh even had to tell some of them to go easy on the atrocities until he started to attack other leaders and their people


    I will never support a traitor like him to be made king in the cannon, he can rot in hell
    I stand corrected. However it still seems to me that once she got over her initial rage, Jaina should have had some time to consider the fact that she has known and worked with many of the Horde leaders for years. Her 180 does not make sense to me. Not to mention the fact that it's rather stupid to take an iconic character and completely change them, regardless of how justified the motivation is.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Thrall. It would've been a more epic storyline if he died somewhere in Cataclysm.
    This. But since it's too late for that now... I'd go with the five pandaren in proving grounds for healers. Because having your whole party standing in the fire has never been more frustrating.

  10. #290
    Stood in the Fire therealbowser's Avatar
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    Thrall. AKA Go'el.

  11. #291
    Stood in the Fire Dat Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sama View Post
    I'd go with the five pandaren in proving grounds for healers. Because having your whole party standing in the fire has never been more frustrating.
    Then just don't heal them ;D
    “How many people long for that 'past, simpler, and better world', I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?” - R.A.Salvatore
    "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - Dr. Richard Dawkins

  12. #292
    Siding with all the people who have said Thrall. I mean, his character's not bad in and of itself, but Metzen's hard-on for the character is absolutely shitting on the rest of the story at this point. Thrall is the savior of the universe in any and all scenarios, and has a hand in everything, and in fact, the whole universe of Warcraft just orbits around the guy. Thrall Thrall Thrall Thrall Thrall.

    If anything points to how Metzen, and the crew of writers behind Warcraft in general, only just barely hover above "amateur" in their creative skill set, it is the character Thrall and how he has been portrayed these last several expansions. I AM SO SICK OF THRALL, IF YOU COULDN'T TELL.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Protar View Post
    The problem is that her change was a complete 180 in personality that didn't make any sense. It's understandable that she's against Garrosh, but being against the rest of the Horde makes absolutely no sense. She's an iconic Warcraft character and they gave her a completely new personality, and the narrative completely villified her - at every turn she's presented as being wrong. It was clearly a cheap set up for her to become a raid boss. Hopefully in a couple years Jaina going crazy will just be regarded as a little dork age.
    Rest of the Horde still supported Garrosh openly from Alliance perspective, all the way until far into MoP and as such could be considered standing behind his actions. And it wasn't 180 out of nowhere. Her entire city was just blown up. That's not some minor grievance to be settled with. And it's actually bit of understatement to say it was just a city, as it was also a city-state of Theramore, practically own nation in it's right.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Rest of the Horde still supported Garrosh openly from Alliance perspective, all the way until far into MoP and as such could be considered standing behind his actions. And it wasn't 180 out of nowhere. Her entire city was just blown up. That's not some minor grievance to be settled with. And it's actually bit of understatement to say it was just a city, as it was also a city-state of Theramore, practically own nation in it's right.
    It's hardly well into MoP that the Horde begins openly rebelling against Garrosh. It's as early as 5.1. And Jaina was still pro-peace during Cataclysm, so she should logically have been aware of the tensions between Garrosh and the other leaders. Her immediate rage and her hatred of Garrosh makes perfect sense. Her continued vendetta against the Horde does not.
    Disclaimer: No I'm not Alliance. I reserve the right to bat for both factions thank you very much.


  15. #295
    Garrosh needs to die...in pain and then we should put his head on a spike.

  16. #296
    What's with all the hate for Lorewalker Cho? I mean, seriously... did you guys find him that annoying? I kind of liked him...

  17. #297
    Sylvanas in some epic sacrifice for her people.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Stripeyhat View Post
    *raises hand* Insane person reporting in I guess.

    Wow. If Metzen read this thread he would just fall into a puddle of tears right there. It must really suck to have a great passion for something and pour so much effort into making that thing awesome only for it to have the exact opposite effect and make everybody hate it. It feels like I haven't heard a single person say they like Thrall (or Go'el even) in forever. That said I won't disagree that Thrall has become increasingly annoying and dull since Cata. Pushing the whole "I'm a shaman not a Warchief" family-man thing so hard just, rather tragically, didn't seem to work in the end. Here's hoping he's less terrible in WoD but I guess the damage has already been done at this point. Le sigh.

    On topic: Honestly? I'm going to go ahead and say "Genn Greymane" not because I hate the guy but because it seems like the only way the worgen are going to get even a single scrap of recognition in the story. Think about it. Yes, a worgen character dies but it also shifts the spotlight to them. Genn dies and we get a big story about what happens next. That would leave his wife Mia in charge and now that Liam is gone Tess is his only heir. Neither of those characters are fighters. They're not warriors or mages or even priests but, to me, that would make it interesting. Every other faction leader is a powerhouse in their respective class. Having one who isn't a fighter in any way would be a breath of fresh air. Martial prowess/magic isn't required to be a good monarch after all. The Greymane girls have an army of dapper lycanthropes to worry about that for them.

    For example, a questline that follows Tess around as she mourns her father and struggles to get to grips with her new status as Queen of Gilneas perhaps or perhaps not culminating in her willingly taking on the worgen curse would be pretty great as far as I'm concerned and I'm not even an Alliance player.

    As far as Sylvanas goes, I'm still a fan of hers but I feel like it will soon start getting ridiculous that, if she continues to act as she did throughout Cata, she doesn't end up bringing the entirety of Azeroth's righteous fury down on the Undercity's head (her mental state is at a new low by the end of War Crimes so who knows what she might do). The Alliance isn't going to sit around as she steamrolls over northern EK and Vol'jin's Horde probably isn't going to be okay with it either. Perhaps either Marris or Voss (wow, the undead really don't have anyone else do they) could make a decent replacement someday with the appropriate character development but absolutely not as they are right now. Marris is still too much of a Sylvanas toadie to think for himself and Voss would need to get over her raging undead hate-boner first. My theory for Sylvanas was that she would eventually ascend into some kind of val'kyr-like being herself but who knows. Killing her off would be a huge job considering how big a part of her race she is (she's basically referred to every 5 seconds when a Forsaken is talking) but I feel like if she continues to do what she did to Southshore it's going to become increasingly odd that nobody marches on the Undercity to take her head.

    tl;dr: Med'an. I would kill Med'an.
    *Raises Hand* i like thrall/go'el i can't be the only one he brought together the whole horde and even though i play alliance hes one of the most coolest horde people along cairne saurfang Grommash Ner'Zhul and Vol'jin and i guess sylvanas if you even consider her horde anymore? and i like gnomes there titan lore is actually pretty cool and Jaina has somewhat calmed down since War crimes

    i don't wanna kill Anduin i wanna see him grow into something that knows that he cant be friends with everyone.

    if i had to kill someone it would be... and this might be strange but in a good way either velen by say sacrificing himself to the legion and having another draenei step up to the plate like Yrel even so or Vindictator Maarad? idk it could be cool

    or greymane the worgen why? kinda like stripeyhat said but opposite i want them to get more lore it could be pretty cool

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapemask View Post
    Siding with all the people who have said Thrall. I mean, his character's not bad in and of itself, but Metzen's hard-on for the character is absolutely shitting on the rest of the story at this point. Thrall is the savior of the universe in any and all scenarios, and has a hand in everything, and in fact, the whole universe of Warcraft just orbits around the guy. Thrall Thrall Thrall Thrall Thrall.

    If anything points to how Metzen, and the crew of writers behind Warcraft in general, only just barely hover above "amateur" in their creative skill set, it is the character Thrall and how he has been portrayed these last several expansions. I AM SO SICK OF THRALL, IF YOU COULDN'T TELL.
    This right here

  20. #300
    Thrall.

    As cool a character as he's been I at least want him to take back seat for a while. Some dramatic death for added motivation would be fitting if they do have him play a part. Like I still think they should have just killed off Alexstrasza when she tustled with Deathwing during the questline in the Twilight Highlands.

    Thrall: Whever you go, I will follow.
    Vol'jin: Na mon, you got to stay behind dis time. For mebbe 2 expansions or so. Raise dat kid a yours.
    Thrall: ....Very well.
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2014-07-19 at 11:24 PM.

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