How does mage PvP look in WOD so far?

[GrayFrost]

Then theres no reason to choose Ice nova over Frost Bomb :S

[Deleted]

Will the undisputed reign of mages since S1 finally be over? Stay tuned!

In all seriousness, numbers have to be tweaked first before you can draw any conclusion.
Mages lost a lot but so did everyone else so will just have to wait and see.

right after the reign of warriors ends forever

[Polarthief]

It doesn't.

Yay for worthless perks if this is intended.

How about we just get Improved Blink instead? :3

Edit: Reposted from the Beta discussion thread because it's more relevant here

Me: @Celestalon So Ice Nova doesn't proc the free Blink from Enh Frost Nova... Could we maybe get Imp Blink instead? Worthless perks are bad.
Me: @Celestalon Or, y'know, at least something that isn't literally worthless because I picked a talent. Kinda unfair that Frost has 8 perks.
Him: @Polarthief There exists some point of view that makes many perks "worthless". Doesn't mean they are.
Me: @Celestalon No, I mean it's literally worthless if you pick Ice Nova because it doesn't trigger and IN replaces FN. Literally 0 benefit.
Me: @Celestalon That's not the same as saying "this perk is bad because it's bad", I'm saying "this perk is worthless because it does nothing".

This is pretty funny. Hoping for a non-dismissive response.

How to fix this perk: Put a 30s ICD on it. Let IN proc it. Problem solved.

[Kezotar]

Mage in the beta? Terrible. I don't play a mage for a "living" however I'm not stupid, obviously I don't know the best methods to kite, and to burst but in general when I play a class I do okey on it. Tried mage, I understand all the thing it's a beta, however when a healers Eternal Flame outhealed my burst, that's when I got worried, maybe mages is broken.

Tbh, GC, needs to get back at it. Game is bad. Not only mages, but everything.

[Deleted]

After some testing on target dummies it turned out arcane is pretty good, which is really surprising to me. Arcane Orb fits the kit amazingly well, up to the point it should be baseline for the spec. With Ice Floes and 2 instants on a short CD mobility won't be much of a problem either. Shame that PoM has absolutely no synergy with anything and that you have to be in melee range to AoE.

Also, broadly speaking, I still find it a shame that if you specialize in Arcane you gain nothing but a DPS rotation. Honestly, why does the baseline spec still lack some more PvP centric spells (such as Dragon's Breath or the old mana shield talent that knocked people back). At the least it would give Arcane more identity and make it more fun for stuff outside raids. Yes there is Slow, but on its own it is so lackluster it's just used in conjunction with the AB glyph.

Fire seems to be exactly the same gameplay wise, but Combustion lost some of its luster. Frost doesn't seem that much different either, but I spent the least time with it so far. All level 100 talents seem really lacking for PvP, but at least Comet Storm and Arcane Orb are easy to use. The ground targeting reticule and the ground DoT seem like huge cons to Meteor.

Lastly, am I alone in absolutely loathing the split damage mechanics of Meteor? I can see how this mechanic is a balancing factor for Prismatic Crystal, but not for Meteor.

[GrayFrost]

Lastly, am I alone in absolutely loathing the split damage mechanics of Meteor? I can see how this mechanic is a balancing factor for Prismatic Crystal, but not for Meteor.

Nope, you arent. I also think thata its kind of stupid that the damage is split between the targets it hits. Looks more like a raid mechanic than a talent.
Lets hope they buff the damage to be something significant in pvp and that its viable both in pve and pvp because the passive is boring (looks like a set bonus) and I really dont like all the crystal stuff. I just wanna drop some motherf*cking icy comets on my enemy and hear them CRUNCH >

Also, why can they be dodged? Meteor well, you have to target it so its kind of logical but Icy comets is instant and fall on your actual target, doesnt really make sense if you can avoid half the damage porting/leaping away (not really sure on this one, its just my concluion from the streams I watched. But again, in those streams you dont even break pallys crappy shield with them so whatever. Can someone confirm if they can be dodged?

[Zathrendar]

The arcane 4p bonus is pretty potent, and could make arcane fun in PVP since you can cast AM and AB on the move during AP, especially in conjunction with Overpowered.

- - - Updated - - -

The PvP is looking pretty bad. Way worse than live and getting worse with each build. Here's a few things they're removing from us/nerfing:

- Cone of Cold removed from Fire
- Nearly all forms of self healing (Ice Block glyph is pretty meh for a 5m cooldown)
- Combustion no longer deals direct damage nor stuns; DoT only (40% of Ignite)
- Deep Freeze is a stun that "may" BREAK ON DAMAGE.
- Counterspell no longer blanket silences (to be fair, they pretty much removed all blanket silences)
- Nether Tempest is now Arcane only; Living Bomb is back to being Fire only. Frost has 0 DoTs.
-- Pretty much all of Frost relies on using Frostbolt for procs. Outside of Frostbolt, the only procs you get are FoFs from Orb and Welly's Freeze.
- Alter Time is now a talent down from baseline. Temporal Shield is now removed.
- Mirror Image is now a talent down from baseline.
- Cone of Cold and Frost Nova had their cooldowns nerfed by 20% (2s/5s respectively)

And the only buffs I've seen thus far:

- Frostjaw no longer halves duration on players
- Flameglow no longer capped (no one will still take it though)
- Ice Nova supposedly stuns for 2s (but you lose Frost Nova. Also, if that's on the stun DR, that's really, really, bad)

Of course, beta isn't final and I have a good feeling they might redo Deep Freeze because a stun that breaks on damage is so laughable.

On the other hand, Mage PvE is looking better and better with each build.

I was afraid they would over-nerf frost. This, combined with the rather pathetic nerfs melee received, makes me worried. It wasn't -just- frost that was out of control, and there was a good reason that it was so in the first place. So I hope the nerfs are not over for melee classes, and particularly warriors. Some of the nerfs to mages have been, as you say, laughable. Also, RoF seems to require channeling now as well? Or am I misreading the description?

- - - Updated - - -

Yay for worthless perks if this is intended.

How about we just get Improved Blink instead? :3

Edit: Reposted from the Beta discussion thread because it's more relevant here

Me: @Celestalon So Ice Nova doesn't proc the free Blink from Enh Frost Nova... Could we maybe get Imp Blink instead? Worthless perks are bad.
Me: @Celestalon Or, y'know, at least something that isn't literally worthless because I picked a talent. Kinda unfair that Frost has 8 perks.
Him: @Polarthief There exists some point of view that makes many perks "worthless". Doesn't mean they are.
Me: @Celestalon No, I mean it's literally worthless if you pick Ice Nova because it doesn't trigger and IN replaces FN. Literally 0 benefit.
Me: @Celestalon That's not the same as saying "this perk is bad because it's bad", I'm saying "this perk is worthless because it does nothing".

This is pretty funny. Hoping for a non-dismissive response.

How to fix this perk: Put a 30s ICD on it. Let IN proc it. Problem solved.

I'm not very impressed by him. He routinely gives blasé answers to valid questions and performs leaps of logic.

- - - Updated - - -

After some testing on target dummies it turned out arcane is pretty good, which is really surprising to me. Arcane Orb fits the kit amazingly well, up to the point it should be baseline for the spec. With Ice Floes and 2 instants on a short CD mobility won't be much of a problem either. Shame that PoM has absolutely no synergy with anything and that you have to be in melee range to AoE.

Also, broadly speaking, I still find it a shame that if you specialize in Arcane you gain nothing but a DPS rotation. Honestly, why does the baseline spec still lack some more PvP centric spells (such as Dragon's Breath or the old mana shield talent that knocked people back). At the least it would give Arcane more identity and make it more fun for stuff outside raids. Yes there is Slow, but on its own it is so lackluster it's just used in conjunction with the AB glyph.

Agreed, and sorry to the developers, but PoM is borderline retarded, as is the change that was introduced with WoD. It needs replacement or to synergise with all spells once more barring the obvious exception of channeled spells and portals.

[Polarthief]

I was afraid they would over-nerf frost. This, combined with the rather pathetic nerfs melee received, makes me worried. It wasn't -just- frost that was out of control, and there was a good reason that it was so in the first place. So I hope the nerfs are not over for melee classes, and particularly warriors. Some of the nerfs to mages have been, as you say, laughable. Also, RoF seems to require channeling now as well? Or am I misreading the description?

Frost isn't nearly as bad on live as it was pre-5.4. After they nerfed Frostburn, we lost a ton of Burst potential (as well as our place in CMs ;~; ).

AFAIK, the only change RoF got was the graphic when they get frozen.

- - - Updated - - -

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13509280909?page=1#2 DF is on Stun DR. DF is now 99% worthless.

In other news, Ice Nova is either on the Roots DR or it's its own DR like Charge, which makes me very happy :3

[Deleted]

Well, PoM works with Frosjaw (for now!) so that would be a good trick for PvP. The only other use of PoM I can think of is to get a new charge so you can cleave with Abarr a bit sooner, but as a whole the spell doesn't mesh that well.

I guess the devs might take a better look at it when the next expansion is getting made.

[Polarthief]

Well, PoM works with Frosjaw (for now!) so that would be a good trick for PvP. The only other use of PoM I can think of is to get a new charge so you can cleave with Abarr a bit sooner, but as a whole the spell doesn't mesh that well.

I guess the devs might take a better look at it when the next expansion is getting made.

Or just remove it because there's no point giving a class with 0 cast-time defensive spells a cooldown for an instant cast outside of Frostjaw and Ring of Frost.


Oh and on the topic of Spellsteal: If you cap your GCD to 1s and cycle SS and AM (or 2-3 SS/2-3 AM), you can stay in AP literally forever, but only if you cast literally every global. Because Overpowered gives you +2s on AP per AM, you spend 1 GCD on SS and another on AM, which takes 2s and gives you 2s.

Also, curious if Improved AP makes ALL spells cost 10% less instead of just damaging ones. Would be a nice buff to your Mastery for Spellsteal. REALLY BLOWS THEY REMOVED MANA GEM WHEN WE REALLY NEEDED IT.

[Deleted]

Mages feel less in the current Beta, atleast we're not Survival hunters, in pvp you barely have any cc now feels miserable

[Deleted]

if anyone played mage pvp during classic, burning crusade and even wrath of the lich king, you probably hated cata mage pvp, mop mage pvp and will hate the mage class in WoD like I do and probably switch class or even not play wow at all...

seriously, mage sucks, all your ccs nerfed, no kiting at all(like seriously, you can't kite, everyone has way too good gap closers and your slows suck to begin with), fire totally gimped - it is not viable at all in pvp anymore, not even close anymore - dragons breath nerfed by 1 sec and shares DR with sheep xd.
a lot of mage skills getting removed from specs sucks (AE,Blizzard,CoC, deep freeze).
nova nerfed for all specs... like wtf and even CoC, which is so seriously weak its not even worth using(60% slow - are you serious blizzard)
It is more annoying that blizzard thinks it is fine putting in talents which replace important spells like frost nova and make them weaker. Who would seriously trade frost nova with blast wave without knockback?seriously?

I was so annoyed playing mage in WoD beta not because so much changed, it is because mage doesn't play like a mage anymore. It is not the class I loved playing.
I started hating frost pvp since cata because of perma pet, I hated pvp so much since mop and now I don't even want to touch the mage class anymore.

Seriously there is so much wrong with the class in pvp. It is even more annoying that celeston in twitter says that mage is more about avoiding dmg rather than tanking or migitating dmg but this guy probably never played a mage in pvp during all of WoW.
Mage can't tank like a warlock. Mage can't kite like a mage could pre MoP. Mage is primary target in pvp since you get wrecked. wrecked in seconds and are forced instantly into iceblock because every melee sticks EASILY WITHOUT SUPPORT on your ass.

[haxartus]

Frost Bomb damage is kind of high though. It doubles the damage you can do with enough procs.

[Rogal Dorn]

Since season 1 mages are the best spec or top 3 in every season, this will never change.

[Polarthief]

Frost Bomb damage is kind of high though. It doubles the damage you can do with enough procs.

Good luck getting procs though; that's sorta the problem. Interrupts are still on pretty much every class, they just removed the blanket silences and merged a few DRs.

[Deleted]

I do agree with you, magepvpgod (what a name... ), I do. Sadly. For the most part. I actually liked fire in Cata. Sure, we lost our old Blast Wave, and also that passive effect that would occasionally disarm attackers... But it wasn't too bad. The Flame Orb, even though not very strong, was an awesome spell. And the old RoF was so handy.
I don't like frost's permanent pet though. And the shatter-reliant fire mage now, in MoP, is just not fun to play. Really, what are the devs going for?

[Debased]

This is grim feedback, grim indeed. I've never had the chance to play a mage in endgame and now it looks like it will be a completely different lackluster class in 6.0. LOL unfortunately Warlocks look like they really got shafted too. I was leaning on either or being my main. I don't mind playing an underdog but as far as I can tell both classes, especially mages look like they lost so much more than they gained. I'm equally disappointed in how Warlocks are essentially a punching bag turret in Beta.

[Polarthief]

This is grim feedback, grim indeed. I've never had the chance to play a mage in endgame and now it looks like it will be a completely different lackluster class in 6.0. LOL unfortunately Warlocks look like they really got shafted too. I was leaning on either or being my main. I don't mind playing an underdog but as far as I can tell both classes, especially mages look like they lost so much more than they gained. I'm equally disappointed in how Warlocks are essentially a punching bag turret in Beta.

It's funny how the expansion that "nerfs" CC and especially silences also nerfed the two pure casters.

Still though, current DF is broken (UP) beyond believe. A stun that breaks on damage AND is on the Stun DR is just pointless. There is ONE scenario now where you would cast this, and that's with a non-DoT* arena team that has no other stunners.

On the other hand, Ice Nova is looking really neat, as it's a shorter cooldown than Frost Nova and also stuns for 2s (and this stun ISN'T on the DR).


* There is no glyph for DF to remove DoTs, like Polymorph's glyph. If anyone else on your team has a stun, it's debeneficial to cast DF since it not only triggers Stun DR, but also uses a FoF proc or a previous frozen effect.

[Deleted]

Since I made my first posts here, I got an invite to the WoD beta and managed to test a few things for myself. I did so mostly through duels, just to get a hang of the basic gist of the specs. I tested both Fire and Arcane for duels. Even of live I haven't played frost in PvP since MoP hit and I've been using fire.

The results aren't really that good. Fire lost a lot of control when its stuns (DF and Combustion Impact) were taken away. There's still plenty of mobility but dealing damage would be a problem because you really can't set up your burst. Meteor needs some setup through CC, but with the ground DoT a good portion of its damage is lost and the burst portion isn't anything worth noting. Still, it is really important to note that the Fire PvP set bonus was not working, so I can't tell how powerful a charged Fireball would be. Still, you can kite as much as you like, but any range attack or DoT will slowly tickle down your heath since the more interesting "healing" mechanics like AT or Temporal Shield were taken away. In most cases other players simply outlasted me. Sitting in Ice Block to regenerate health is on a longer CD than Evocation healing and by yourself you'd have a hard time surviving till Cold Snap's cooldown is over.

Arcane wasn't that good in PvP either. The lack of meaningful PvP centered spells as as usual bogs down performance and CC is lacking. Still, the arcane PvP bonuses worked and both are great. Doesn't matter because any melee will shed with ease the little CC (CoC, Frost/Arcane Nova, PoM+FJ) and defenses (only Ice Barrier really) we have. Still, the mobility of the spec with the set bonus and Blazing Speed/Ice Flows could make the spec work in the right conditions when you have teammates for support.

[Lulbalance]

This is grim feedback, grim indeed. I've never had the chance to play a mage in endgame and now it looks like it will be a completely different lackluster class in 6.0. LOL unfortunately Warlocks look like they really got shafted too. I was leaning on either or being my main. I don't mind playing an underdog but as far as I can tell both classes, especially mages look like they lost so much more than they gained. I'm equally disappointed in how Warlocks are essentially a punching bag turret in Beta.

i love that no one talks about the the purple diamond of globalling death... mess around with that a little bit