Malaysian Airlines flight carrying 295 people has been shot down in Ukraine

[Orange Joe]

Well that kind of shows how clueless they are. It's an universally known fact that the airspace was open and there were plenty of airplanes flying there.

When did Malaysian officials become a good source. Are people forgetting they lost a whole plane and can't say how?

[NYC17]

Your argument is idiotic. Go watch social media and report us how it's evidence.

Right, but your opinion of the argument is irrelevant. You haven't shown any capability to understand what you're talking about, let alone judge others on what they're discussing.

To top it off you've come to the conclusion that it's entirely about social media, which again, would be stupid of you to profess if you actually had been following the conversation since the beginning. Or as you know it "months ago".

[Deleted]

Well that kind of shows how clueless they are. It's an universally known fact that the airspace was open and there were plenty of airplanes flying there.

Not actually. Most companies have been avoiding ukraine for months.
Ukraine didn't feel it was necessary to deem it unsafe. It did once MH17 got shot.

[Jackmoves]

Now this is not a civil war anymore....
And you're the unbiased one?

You've been defending the illegal russian invasion of Ukraine since day one Djalil. I'm not sure why, but thats the history you got to deal with. You are in support of an illegal invasion of another sovereign state.

And no, I wouldn't call it a civil war when there is a solid supply of arms, men and vehicles flowing into Ukraine from Russia, free of charge.

[Deleted]

Right, but your opinion of the argument is irrelevant. You haven't shown any capability to understand what you're talking about, let alone judge others on what they're discussing.

To top it off you've come to the conclusion that it's entirely about social media, which again, would be stupid of you to profess if you actually had been following the conversation since the beginning. Or as you know it "months ago".

Done? God almighty.

[Puupi]

Not actually. Most companies have been avoiding ukraine for months.
Ukraine didn't feel it was necessary to deem it unsafe. It did once MH17 got shot.

"Not actually" what?
The airspace was open. End of story.
Should it have been open? No, obviously not. But it was.

[Deleted]

You've been defending the illegal russian invasion of Ukraine since day one Djalil. I'm not sure why, but thats the history you got to deal with. You are in support of an illegal invasion of another sovereign state.

And no, I wouldn't call it a civil war when there is a solid supply of arms, men and vehicles flowing into Ukraine from Russia, free of charge.

Prove this accusation now jack.
There are Ukrainian soldiers killing ukrainian rebels and ujrainian civilians dieing.
It's a civil war by definition.

[Nefastus]

At this point only someone who is completely delusional would call it a civil war, foreign insurgency backed up by another sovereign State isn't civil war. And that piece of land, it's Ukrainian through and through.

All the more reason for the rebels to get the fuck out and let the dutch and aussies in. No need for the Ukrainian Army to shell it then is it?

Indeed, there is no civil war. Its madman Puttin backing up russians fighting ukrainians. There should be a full embargo to Russia, let them rot there if its true most of the population suports their dictator.

[Deleted]

"Not actually" what?
The airspace was open. End of story.
Should it have been open? No, obviously not. But it was.

there were plenty of airplanes flying there.

Not actually.

[NYC17]

When did Malaysian officials become a good source. Are people forgetting they lost a whole plane and can't say how?

Eh, I can see them saying it. It's from a Chinese/Taiwanese newspaper which quotes a supposed report from a Singapore newspaper so it's difficult to verify. But...who cares? He's not saying anything other than what most people already have. The problem is that a certain group of people involved in this discussion have a difficult time understanding the difference between the concept of a conclusion and most likely.

[Orange Joe]

Eh, I can see them saying it. It's from a Chinese/Taiwanese newspaper which quotes a supposed report from a Singapore newspaper so it's difficult to verify. But...who cares? He's not saying anything other than what most people already have. The problem is that a certain group of people involved in this discussion have a difficult time understanding the difference between the concept of a conclusion and most likely.

Oh I know, I've been following the thread with my popcorn. I must say it's been pretty interesting to watch how some people try to twist things.

[Puupi]

Not actually.

Yes there were. It has been proved here at least 23352 times.

[NYC17]

Done? God almighty.

Sure, if you're willing to remove yourself from the conversation I'll be more than happy to not counter your bullshit with actual information and understanding.

[Crispin]

I'm going to buy a Russian dictionary and translate the word circumstantial for you all, because it doesn't seem to come across. The Russian "evidence" that you were all harping on about how good that was and how incriminating for Ukraine, that has since been shown to be an effort on Paint? That was circumstantial, because it points fingers and suggests without squarely placing the finger on the trigger. But when it goes the other way, it doesn't exist.

Waste of time, have fun with your sanctions.

You dont have to find a dictionary, it's quite simple.

If the Russian govt says "it wasnt us" it's evidence that they didnt do it, and when they say "it was the others" it's solid evidence that someone else did it, if they continue to release a low res picture of what appears to be 2 vehicles on a field, well then it's a sealed deal.

[Deleted]

Indeed, there is no civil war. Its madman Puttin backing up russians fighting ukrainians. There should be a full embargo to Russia, let them rot there if its true most of the population suports their dictator.

Apparently they do, and it looks like they will pay the price for it in soon time.

[bclumas]

Not actually.

Actually.

Post #5328

Link to the source stated on that post:

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28364306

Information from the article:

Most of the decisions about a route are taken by airlines. But they must avoid no-fly zones. The area where the Malaysian airliner crashed had a no-fly zone in place up to 32,000ft (9,754m). The airliner was flying at 33,000ft (10,058m).

.. and this part, too...

But many airlines continued to fly over it. According to Flight radar24, which monitors live flight paths, the airlines that most frequently flew over Donetsk in eastern Ukraine in the last week were: Aeroflot 86 (flights), Singapore Airlines 75, Ukraine International Airlines 62, Lufthansa 56, and Malaysian 48. It was not necessarily a risky approach. The chance of a rocket reaching above 32,000 feet was considered remote, says Sylvia Spruck Wrigley, author of Why Planes Crash.

This was posted at least three to four times, and probably more.

You're welcome.

[Jackmoves]

Prove this accusation now jack.
There are Ukrainian soldiers killing ukrainian rebels and ujrainian civilians dieing.
It's a civil war by definition.

Prove what? That you've been defending the illegal Russian invasion of Ukraine or that there is plenty of foreign fighters, recruited and trained in Russia?

I can show you some examples that I find interesting.

Leaders
Igor Girkin - > Russian Citizen, retired GRU colonel, he worked for Russian FSB until March 2013.
Aleksander Borodai - > Russian Citizen, conflicting reports about his FSB career, Russian media reported him to have been deputy director for FSB though.

Here is an interesting interview with a former pro-russian fighter, basically the kind of guys they(the unamed and unknown men in civilian clothes) throw to the meat grinder, a grunt.
http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine.../25455466.html

RFE/RL: Journalists who have been in the region say that about 20 percent of those fighting are Russians and the other 80 percent are local militias.

Gasparyan: I'd say exactly the opposite. Most of them are Russians, Chechens, Ingush. There are also Armenians like me. I spoke to some locals and they say that they did what they'd been told. I said, "What did they tell you to do?" They answered: "We voted. The rest is up to you." That is, they participated in the referendum on DNR independence but they don't intend to fight. One guy told me, "I want to get my pay and then drink until my next payday." In general, they have no experience. Don't know how to handle weapons. No one had been in the military. I'm talking about in Donetsk.

RFE/RL: And in Horlivka?

Gasparyan: There it is about 50-50. But the Russians fight better. They are people who have been in the military. It is a real army -- Ukraine hasn't [really] had an army for 23 years.

RFE/RL: Why are you telling us all this?

Gasparyan: Until now, the people who -- basically -- betrayed us (what happened at the airport could have been avoided and everything could have been different if they had organized it right) are still giving orders and volunteers from Russia are still going to serve with them. I want these people to understand who is going to be commanding them. I went. I survived by a miracle. I feel sorry for them. They are on their way to serve such commanders as Khodakovsky and others. I don't know all their names.

[Puupi]

*snip*

In addition to this, the SAS flight was tailing MH17 at the exactly same flight route 100 seconds behind.

[Nefastus]

Apparently they do, and it looks like they will pay the price for it in soon time.

Those are some good news. This wanna be Stalin is going too far and we all know what happens when we leave crazy dictators untoched for too long. We cant allow a 21 century stalin. Better to stop him now right. Embargo them hard and let russians learn the hard way they cant go around destroying other countries with no repercusions.

[Crispin]

Well, have fun in the USSR part 2 Russians, thank god I'm not in your shoes lol, thank your president.