Twitter is to blame for women and African Americans not getting tech degrees

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure there's like only 1-5% in wheelchairs working at twitter, there should be like 50% of people in wheelchairs otherwise it ain't equality !

Well there is a violent solution to that.

[JohnBrown1917]

As a white devil I admit that all of this is just a conspiracy by us whities to keep down the minorities and the woman.

[Deleted]

You have to understand that these people are mentally unstable. They're not just odd or eccentric, they are literally mentally disturbed and should seek professional help.

They live in a world filled with delusions and the only way they can find some purpose in life is to oppose something - in this particular case it's men. Tomorrow it might be something else.

it wont be. these type of women ALWAYS hate men. its in their DNA to do so.

[Nihilan]

As a white devil I admit that all of this is just a conspiracy by us whities to keep down the minorities and the woman.

We agreed at the meeting that we would not tell them that dammit!

[Daez]

The hyperbole is strong in that post.

I am an engineer myself and in almost 20 years of being in this business i have never met a female engineer. For what it's worth, I've have also never met a black engineer. On the other hand, I have met many Asian and Indian engineers.

You can shout about equality till you are red in the face, but it will not change the fact that some fields are dominated by men, some are dominated by women. Some are further dominated by specific races on top of the gender separation.

This argument comes up like every couple of weeks though. Very Deja-Vu.

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[edit] To clarify, i meant i never met a Mechanical, Electrical, Systems, or Controls engineer that was either female or black.

That was NOT how I read the post I responded to. There is a big difference between do not and can not. Women are traditionally not inspired to go into hard science related fields the same way men are. Its institutional bias in both the family and school settings. As we begin to overcome that, more women will start gaining interests in these fields and more women will go into these fields. However, even now, when they are not going into these fields it does not mean they cannot do it. Hell our valedictorian who graduated with a 4.0 had every single math course and every single science course and got straight A's in all of them and was a female. She was going on to do 12 years of post high-school schooling and become a pharmacist.

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Absolutely my friend...

If they shot in "private" then how do you know rather they passed or not. You don't. You are making the assumption that they did not. That assumption is based on nothing because you didn't see them shoot and you didn't see any evidence that they did not pass. Maybe the company decided they could shoot in private because they didn't want to unnecessarily expose them to the all boys club at the shooting gallery. That was probably to avoid men making stupid comments that would land them in hot water. So, why did men get the special privilege to shoot beside their friends. <Speculation is fun!>

[Ninepenny]

We agreed at the meeting that we would not tell them that dammit!

I told you not to invite that guy ! God damn it !

That was NOT how I read the post I responded to. There is a big difference between do not and can not. Women are traditionally not inspired to go into hard science related fields the same way men are. Its institutional bias in both the family and school settings. As we begin to overcome that, more women will start gaining interests in these fields and more women will go into these fields. However, even now, when they are not going into these fields it does not mean they cannot do it. Hell our valedictorian who graduated with a 4.0 had every single math course and every single science course and got straight A's in all of them and was a female. She was going on to do 12 years of post high-school schooling and become a pharmacist.

All doors are open to female students nowadays and they can pursue w/e they desire...well, except they don't.
Your example doesn't mean anything. You can enter a room and the tallest person in that room can be a female. Still doesn't deny a fact that an average man is higher than your average woman.

P.S. People like you are dangerous to our society. I mean, those who believe gender roles are an entirely artificial social construct.

[Masark]

No, the fact that 4 of 5 bachelor degrees given in computer science go to men isn't to blame

But is that cause or effect?

Are women not working at tech companies because they don't go into compsci or are women not going into compsci because they wouldn't be able to get employment in the field post-graduation?

[Cronch]

I don't really get the outrage, personally. They released a report on their workforce demographics and basically said "yeah we could stand to be more diverse." It's not like they're whipping themselves while shouting "WE'RE SORRY FOR BEING WHITE MALES" and handing free jobs to minorities (which a lot of people mistakenly believe affirmative action is). As much as you guys might hate to believe, workforce diversity is a very good way to increase overall company effectiveness thanks to having more viewpoints and perspectives on how to solve problems. The problem is that the hiring field is simply so non-diverse in STEM industries that we end up with a major whitewashing effect. That's why affirmative action is even a thing in the first place. It's meant to encourage employers to seek out a more diverse set of applicants so that minority groups actually have a better shot of socioeconomic growth. And yeah, that means a white person may get passed up for a person in a minority group with the same qualifications from time to time. It's not just "they hired that random black guy with no qualifications instead of that well-qualified white guy." Incidents like that are so rare that anti-AA people have to resort to (most often made up) anecdotal stories about their "friend's" experience. Meanwhile the real data says that AA does have a positive impact.

Personally, I think the solution to most of these problems is to re-focus early education efforts and to stop trying to steer kids into certain careers based on gender. Telling a little girl she should grow up to be a teacher/nurse/whatever other "female-centric" career early on only reinforces the idea that other options aren't meant for them, which is why we see the numbers in STEM fields that we see today. Readjusting educational priority at this stage will help a lot, though it won't fix the damage that's already been done of course.

[Daez]

Personally? I think that white and eurasian males are just more drawn to those fields. More drawn to technology careers that require problem-solving and tinkering. I know that is what drew me. Most of the technicians in the company where i work share the same demographics as the engineers - that is to say they are almost exclusively white, latino, asian, or indian males. I say almost, because i know of at least a few women, and I've seen a handful of blacks. But they make up a tiny fraction of hundreds of laborers and operators.

On the other hand, our accounting, HR, and general administration offices are staffed primarily by women. So, make of that what you will.

There is a HUGE leap between this and saying that black and women just aren't cut out for it based on anything genetic. You are right in your observations, but what you fail to realize is that people for the most part are not at all pre-disposed to their interests. Our interests are mostly fostered in as children. If your parent cheers at all your basketball games and pays no attention to all your A's it sends a message that you should excel in basketball. If your parent is more impressed with your ability to attract socially desirable men than they are of your ability to hold a 4.0 (as a female) you will probably get the message that you should excel at attracting desirable men.

I'm willing to be that your parents were all excited when you did well in tinkering and programming and that encouraged you. I bet they wouldn't have been as excited if you did well in makeup and cosmetology which discouraged you. This starts at a very young age when women are encouraged to play house with dolls and men are encouraged to play doctor, lawyer and with trucks. It continues all the way through educational systems.

It is simply socialization...nothing more!

[Daez]

Its not even that they just aren't getting hired. I have only ever had one woman apply for a technician job in my department and never once a black guy. It seems pretty obvious to me that there's just a lack of interest from their specific demographics.

It seems pretty obvious to me that a whole slew of things could be at play. Women are not normally encouraged to go into tech careers by their parents, their schools and their society in the United States.

Blacks are normally got given the same access to a well-rounded and well-funded education that would allow them to achieve the same test scores as the average white guy on math and science exams. Not doing well on an exam sends the message you are not good at it... even if you really would be if given the same opportunity.

In my state, we fund schools based on property taxes by district. The result is that while an affluent district has money to burn, a poor district has budget short falls. When you consider that demographically speaking it is much more likely for the black family to be in the poorer district you quickly figure out that the access to quality education is not at all equal and that highly impacts what fields someone will be qualified to go into. The few blacks and other minorities that you see buck the trends, often because of really good parental support.

[Ninepenny]

There is a HUGE leap between this and saying that black and women just aren't cut out for it based on anything genetic. You are right in your observations, but what you fail to realize is that people for the most part are not at all pre-disposed to their interests. Our interests are mostly fostered in as children. If your parent cheers at all your basketball games and pays no attention to all your A's it sends a message that you should excel in basketball. If your parent is more impressed with your ability to attract socially desirable men than they are of your ability to hold a 4.0 (as a female) you will probably get the message that you should excel at attracting desirable men.

I'm willing to be that your parents were all excited when you did well in tinkering and programming and that encouraged you. I bet they wouldn't have been as excited if you did well in makeup and cosmetology which discouraged you. This starts at a very young age when women are encouraged to play house with dolls and men are encouraged to play doctor, lawyer and with trucks. It continues all the way through educational systems.

It is simply socialization...nothing more!

So much wrong..Just keep your utopian ideas to yourself ,will ya?

[Dhrizzle]

In being (most likely) the only person who read the first article and didn't take the OP at face value, I have to ask. Why did the OP try to act as though blacks, Hispanics (which he left out in his OP strangely enough), and women were targeting, blaming, and going after Twitter. When it comes down to Twitter's own stated beliefs in terms of what they're doing in regards to diversity?

Well I can't be bothered in going so far as to actually read things to make an informed opinion, but in general people who make these threads are being just as non-constructive and reactionary as the believe the people they dislike are being.

[NewOrleansTrolley]

So much wrong..Just keep your utopian ideas to yourself ,will ya?

Let's just admit that we're all just using anecdotals as support, ok? With that out of the way, I have to agree with him.

I'm a teacher in an urban environment, right? 40% African American, 60% Hispanic. They're OK kids. This year for African American month, we had an assembly. Every single African American celebrated on the assembly scene except one were athletes or entertainers. I actually made a 40-minute lesson after the assembly trying to make them realize that they were African American inventors they could look up too. Before that lesson, they couldn't name one single African American who made something / invented something. It's difficult to aspire to be an inventor when you can name inventors of your race with just one hand. So yes, I have to agree with Daez here.

[Daez]

With that kind of attitude it will continue to be a "mans field".

I kind of have to agree with that statement. My partner works in a law office, and one of his best partners is a woman in her late 60s. She became a lawyer at a time when the field was completely dominated by men. She earned her success by working harder and smarter than the men that were doing the same job. My partner is in awe of her brilliance.

This is normal in most Software positions. You will always have bosses trying to take your credit. You have to fight for your just due, that goes for most careers not just software.

Its normal in almost all positions period regardless of your gender. They will take credit as much as they can as long as you let them. If you stand up for yourself and threaten to walk when you are truly carrying the department they will suddenly change their tune. However, you got to be willing to do so and you have to actually be carrying the department. If they can do without you or you don't stand up for yourself then prepare to be walked on. Of course, that is easier said than done when women are socialized never to stand up for themselves and always end every dispute by caving in.

Like I said above, this becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It will continue to be a "mans field" until women break through and change it. Tell young girls (and boys for that matter) to stay away from careers that they have interests in because of social stigma or perceived bias is wrong and perpetuates this.

Along with this, we have to start socializing our female children that they should follow their own interests and start encouraging those interests rather they meet with what we feel is appropriate for women or not. If a female child wants to grow up to be president then we should start encouraging her to work for that goal. The worst that can happen is she doesn't meet that goal but ends up as a governor or some other form of political science professional or politician.

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NO!! It is the patriarchy!

I wouldn't even use that terminology. Its the socialization. Patriarchy makes it sound like its only men that are to blame for the current conditions... which it is not... there are plenty of women to blame for socialization as well. Not to mention, we socialize boys to be leaders and girls to be followers. Its not like boys really make a conscious decision to be leaders and any boy that isn't socialized to be a leader is often looked down upon.

[wowaccounttom]

There are many that are upset.

There are many that are happy.

I personally would like to thank twitter.

Being in a tech degree with only 4 girls in my classes, I must admit I find them either very annoying or very distracting. If there is a force, aka twitter, that is keeping them from getting those degrees (entering, passing, graduating) then I am happy because 4 chicks is 4 too many in that program. I want a sausage fest so I can concentrate.

[Daez]

You laugh...

I have literally had people tell me in absolute seriousness that its my fault that "Women can't get jobs in the aerospace industry." Mine. Because i happen to be a white man in a position of relative authority within my company.

Like I'm the one writing the secret anti-woman handbook that the entire fucking industry follows.

A lot of people are idiots. Its taking the things those idiots said and applying them to everyone from that same demographic that is called stereotyping. Stereotyping is bad mmkay!

[Endus]

This thread started badly, and didn't get better. Locking this.