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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Maekito View Post
    It doesn't seem to hit very hard on beta.
    How does it hit compared to your other abilities? It might just be that feral are under tuned atm.
    It's almost always the wrong argument to compare yourself to the highest DPS specs out there. "Middle of the pack" is actually where everyone is supposed to be. -Ghostcrawler
    DPS Tuning
    •Yes, this is a roller coaster. Our process is to try things out and iterate if we don't like them. If the churn offends you, just hang on for another week or two.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Exile1123 View Post
    I honestly think that I'll deal more DPS with a small 5% reduction but with it being active all the time. I know that there are times when I fail to see that Savage Roar is not up, greatly reducing my DPS.

    And it is good for those who are playing Feral for the first time, letting them get the hang of things, since it is a pretty complicated spec.
    I think this is the target audience. The Feral population that has been playing since Wotlk are already used to maintaining SR and if anything it will be easier than ever to do so if you spec into LI. Bloodtalons will only work for certain comps where Feral can maintain high time on target, while for other situations we'll be left with wondering whether having a ranged CP generator or cloning in form + 5% versatility is better. So far it's looking like the latter.

  3. #23
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exeris View Post
    How does it hit compared to your other abilities? It might just be that feral are under tuned atm.
    I have no doubt Ferals are undertuned, but it still hits like a wet noodle compared to other abilities. From what I remember it hit barely harder than shred. I'll do some numbers tests later.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Juni View Post
    Is there any scenario where the glyph is worth taking though?
    PvP, where it is extremely annoying to keep something as mandatory as savage roar up all the time.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    PvP, where it is extremely annoying to keep something as mandatory as savage roar up all the time.
    Annoying, but not hard. Doubt taking it would be worthwhile.

  6. #26
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    Annoying, but not hard. Doubt taking it would be worthwhile.
    Im pretty sure it will be pretty much the best option taking the glyph together with claws of shirvallah. Dont see any downsides tbh
    Epic!

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    Im pretty sure it will be pretty much the best option taking the glyph together with claws of shirvallah. Dont see any downsides tbh
    I think it would be comp dependent and I'm not sure that passive SR glyph would be ideal in any situation. Here's what I'm thinking.

    If we run something like kittycleave where we're relegated to being brainless damage bots and riding on warrior coattails we'll have high time on target making DoC + Bloodtalons a stronger choice for some very high damage to supplement warrior burst. Though in RBG I still don't see anything except CoS making us desired.

    For a comp where we're called to CC we will definitely go with CoS so we don't expose ourselves to poly. I think the cyclone range glyph would be more valuable than passive SR (where the benefits aren't that great if you do the math) where Ninth Life and 5cp SR glyph would become mandatory.

    I just don't see passive SR as being anything but an inferior choice that will be helpful for people that are new to the spec or having a hard time with grasping Feral.

  8. #28
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    I think it would be comp dependent and I'm not sure that passive SR glyph would be ideal in any situation. Here's what I'm thinking.

    If we run something like kittycleave where we're relegated to being brainless damage bots and riding on warrior coattails we'll have high time on target making DoC + Bloodtalons a stronger choice for some very high damage to supplement warrior burst. Though in RBG I still don't see anything except CoS making us desired.

    For a comp where we're called to CC we will definitely go with CoS so we don't expose ourselves to poly. I think the cyclone range glyph would be more valuable than passive SR (where the benefits aren't that great if you do the math) where Ninth Life and 5cp SR glyph would become mandatory.

    I just don't see passive SR as being anything but an inferior choice that will be helpful for people that are new to the spec or having a hard time with grasping Feral.
    Hmm.. you come with valid points. As for passive SR being for new players, that might be true.
    SR is just something im used to so it doesnt feel like something thats hard to keep up.

    Regarding CoS vs BT i guess that would be changed depending on comp yes.

    How do you feel about the current opener on beta if we ignore the fact that rake bugs sometimes
    and wastes all of your energy, what would be the optimal opener in your eyes using
    bloodtalons and DoC and the 5cp savage-glyph?
    Last edited by MrApple; 2014-07-29 at 11:06 AM.
    Epic!

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    Hmm.. you come with valid points. As for passive SR being for new players, that might be true.
    SR is just something im used to so it doesnt feel like something thats hard to keep up.

    Regarding CoS vs BT i guess that would be changed depending on comp yes.

    How do you feel about the current opener on beta if we ignore the fact that rake bugs sometimes
    and wastes all of your energy, what would be the optimal opener in your eyes using
    bloodtalons and DoC and the 5cp savage-glyph?
    Well, this is all on paper of course. I think Tinderhoof did the math (hope he can share with us) and the gains from passive SR honestly didn't seem that much even when it was at 45%. And I'm only saying this because you, me and any Feral that has been playing longer than a few patches ago is probably so used to maintaining SR anyway, I figure with reduced CC in WOD it should be even easier to maintain, right?

    With TF & Bloodtalons being our only snapshotting, we will probably have very strong openers. The question is, do we still get a free PS proc with the 5cp SR when using the glyph? If so we can easily put out a rake stun, some shreds, throw in a FF, Healing touch for BT buff and TF before a juicy Rip. Also, didn't we get a buff with the merging of pounce/rake since pounce was more expensive?

  10. #30
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    With TF & Bloodtalons being our only snapshotting, we will probably have very strong openers. The question is, do we still get a free PS proc with the 5cp SR when using the glyph? If so we can easily put out a rake stun, some shreds, throw in a FF, Healing touch for BT buff and TF before a juicy Rip. Also, didn't we get a buff with the merging of pounce/rake since pounce was more expensive?
    Currently on beta we do indeed get a PS-proc when opening with rake/shred from stealth while using the 5cp SR-glyph.
    We also get a 54 second long savage roar from this.
    Epic!

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by MrApple View Post
    Currently on beta we do indeed get a PS-proc when opening with rake/shred from stealth while using the 5cp SR-glyph.
    We also get a 54 second long savage roar from this.
    I see. Well, that certainly is good news if it remains. One reason I'm not a big fan of BT and relying too much on a strong opener is because I find that most classes will immediately toss out some form of CC and you miss out on getting out that big bleed. I'm not sure how long the BT buff lasts, but TF duration is so short I'd hate to see it wasted. SR with 54 secs is obviously not going to pose a problem.

  12. #32
    Pit Lord MrApple's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gestapo View Post
    I see. Well, that certainly is good news if it remains. One reason I'm not a big fan of BT and relying too much on a strong opener is because I find that most classes will immediately toss out some form of CC and you miss out on getting out that big bleed. I'm not sure how long the BT buff lasts, but TF duration is so short I'd hate to see it wasted. SR with 54 secs is obviously not going to pose a problem.
    TF-duration with perk is 8 seconds(pvp-bonuses suggests that successful interrupts resets its cooldown!?) and BT lasts for 30 seconds.
    Epic!

  13. #33
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    The free Savage Roar from the glyph is bugged at the moment, the duration is too long. It also clears any combo points you may have unused.

    To be honest I think the new glyph to gain the passive Savage Roar will be the way to go. Although any experienced feral gets pretty used to keeping it up, I don't think that's why the glyph is really useful.

    In higher level pvp, particularly arena, its not necessarily easy to plan the timing of your next SR. There are numerous situations where you are pressing a player, wanting to get a new 5CP rip off or perhaps even a FB, just as SR is expiring. I think the main benefit of the glyph is going to be the flexibility of what you do with you CPs without having to worry about SRs place. Is 100% uptime and flexibility worth a 3.6% damage penalty? In my opinion yes.

    In PvE content I doubt the glyph will be worth taking, however in PvP I can see it being fairly strong.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Maekito View Post
    I have no doubt Ferals are undertuned, but it still hits like a wet noodle compared to other abilities. From what I remember it hit barely harder than shred. I'll do some numbers tests later.
    If that's the case they have work to do, will feel almost pointless for me to use FB if it does pretty much the same dmg as shred.

    Building up combo points with shred, for.. a 5 cb shred?
    It's almost always the wrong argument to compare yourself to the highest DPS specs out there. "Middle of the pack" is actually where everyone is supposed to be. -Ghostcrawler
    DPS Tuning
    •Yes, this is a roller coaster. Our process is to try things out and iterate if we don't like them. If the churn offends you, just hang on for another week or two.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Maekito View Post

    In higher level pvp, particularly arena, its not necessarily easy to plan the timing of your next SR. There are numerous situations where you are pressing a player, wanting to get a new 5CP rip off or perhaps even a FB, just as SR is expiring. I think the main benefit of the glyph is going to be the flexibility of what you do with you CPs without having to worry about SRs place. Is 100% uptime and flexibility worth a 3.6% damage penalty? In my opinion yes.
    You have a point. The thing is, even at the moment Feral has to deal with that, and my feeling is that with cc being less in WoD we'll be able to do that much easier. Assuming you take LI it will be extremely easy to keep SR up. However, if you take BT or CoS I can see the passive SR glyph being competitive, especially if the actualy damage penalty works out to be in the 3.6% ish range. I guess it remains to be seen via testing.

    One thing that we aren't talking about however is the ability to generate PS procs. While we can cyclone in form if we go the CoS option, we'll still highly value PS procs for their instant roots and instant HT's (especially if you go DoC + BT for the latter) - which means the SR passive glyph isn't an option. Myself, I'm leaning towards getting Nine Lives, 5pc Roar & Cyclone glyph for the extra 5 yards.

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