Will 5 man heroics and heroic raid difficulty be a problem

[Deleted]

Super casual path: Levelling > Normal Dungeons > LFR
Casual path: Levelling > Normal Dungeons > LFR > Normal Raid
Semi hardcore path: Levelling > Normal Dungeons > LFR OR Heroic Dungeons > Normal Raid > Heroic Raid
Hardcore path: Levelling > Normal Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > Normal Raid > Heroic Raid > Mythic Raid
Super hardcore path: Levelling > Heroic Dungeons > Normal Raid > Heroic Raid > Mythic Raid

Looks nice and inclusive!

That looks right but it's soooo oldschool....that is no longer characteristic of the current player database.

Like Blizzard mentioned, there's a niche of skilled players that don't have time/patience to join progression guilds, but still hunt for something more than LFR. Personally I achieved lk hc 10man realm first, so you can understand how LFR clearly doesn't cut it for me...sadly, I don't have time to raid.

This is why I hope Blizzard will eventually introduce mythic dungeons: CM's are fun, but the difficulty isn't that big (it's more about pace than anything else): "this" niche of players wants a real challenge with a minimal amount of players, and while the answer might sound obvious (3v3 arena), PvE content would be hugely appreciated.

[Krazzorx]

The issue is the niche is too small. LFR prevents dungeons from offering better rewards, and now with Flex, most people without the time to raid organized, still can raid at a fair difficulty.

The audience for 5 man dungeons as tough as heroic or mythic raids giving great rewards just isn't there.

[theburned]

Sorry I might be outdated a little bit so you might be able to correct me but.

I'd say the hardcore path and even the super hardcore path will go Leveling> Heroic dungeons/CM <---- CM gives you an epic> Heroic raid=Mythic Raid

Now I am unsure if Normal Raid and Heroic Raid share the same ID. I know mythic has a separate ID which is why I gave heroic=Mythic

all difficulties have different lookouts.

Mostly to everyone who says that blizzard will cave into the whining, they tend to have a schedule for when x% of the players have defeat some kind of content, as long as they are satisfied with that amount they have no need to nerf it from their own views, and can counter whiny arguements with "if you think hcs are too hard try normals and LFR, eventually you'll have gear enough to do hc dungeons without us at all."

I absolutely despise this line of thinking that "casual = bad". I think Blizzard owe their long-time players to have some progression path for people with limited time, but who still have the skills.
Something like Leveling > Normal Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons
Where heroic dungeons are endgame and properly tuned and treated as such. Not all of us itch to raid. Not because we do not want to, but because the time it takes to find a viable raiding guild that suits and unpredictable gaming schedule is significant.

this time around you have flexible content, mythic is set out for the more dedicated people. having flexible normal raids will be harder than whatever 5 man dungeon can be unless they put really much time and effort into it, and still then it caters to very few players as most of them can do the flex raids for a better progression curve.

[Deleted]

Not for the people they are aimed at I would assume.

[theburned]

find like minded people who can deal with people leaving in the middle of a raid, should be easy with flex mechanics.
if you cant find time to deal with flex mechanics though I doubt there will be any solution that will fit you.

[aziras]

Like Blizzard mentioned, there's a niche of skilled players that don't have time/patience to join progression guilds, but still hunt for something more than LFR. Personally I achieved lk hc 10man realm first, so you can understand how LFR clearly doesn't cut it for me...sadly, I don't have time to raid.

This is why I hope Blizzard will eventually introduce mythic dungeons: CM's are fun, but the difficulty isn't that big (it's more about pace than anything else): "this" niche of players wants a real challenge with a minimal amount of players, and while the answer might sound obvious (3v3 arena), PvE content would be hugely appreciated.

I do not know what brain-fart gave birth to the CMs. Speedruns != challenging content. It promotes risktaking and continuously attempting to get that "perfect run". While I was not even close to realm first in WotLK, I did complete Ulduar and ICC 10man hardmodes/heroic with my semi-casual group. I totally agree with you. It is disheartening to have once been part of the peak of the game in terms of challenge, and then having to suffer through with the dumbed down content due to time constraints. In the spirit of equal opportunity to all players, the "you have to dedicate time to a social group to play the game at the top" is a little too steep. I absolutely love the idea of mythic 5mans. In my mind they should be done like challenge modes, with gear scaling. So that they will pose an equal challenge for everyone, rather than be trivial for those with the top gear. Or even better, introduce a new 5man gear type, which like PvP gear has a special bonus for 5man content to still provide some progression in the mythic 5mans. It would be a rather easy thing to do (considering that the 5mans are already instanced), but of course it means extra work for developers to code the change, the item designers to put more items in the game, and for the testers to make sure it works. But it would be cool to have "small group" content put as a dedicated progression path in line with PvP and raiding.

The issue is the niche is too small. LFR prevents dungeons from offering better rewards, and now with Flex, most people without the time to raid organized, still can raid at a fair difficulty.

The audience for 5 man dungeons as tough as heroic or mythic raids giving great rewards just isn't there.

You might be right that the niche is small, but I would not say it is "too small". I would rather say that it is growing. Out of my 10man lich king group, we are only 3 playing now. Getting another 7 to come back is a tall order, but if we were to just find another 2 players, I would make an attempt at getting them back to playing for a night/week. And I am very certain that my situation is not unique. Those of us who raided in vanilla, 8 years ago, have had a lot happen in our lives since then. The most important part being that our kids are now big enough that it is possible to put aside a night or two each week to play with the friends. And with a busy family life, we don't get to meet up very often, so having a game night where we can virtually meet for a few hours is perfect.
That also goes to say that any 5man mythic content did not have to be massive. For this particular group of players it would take a long time to complete it. For the sake of making the content less trivial they could put them on a weekly reset. This would prevent them from being farmed to oblivion, and could allow the rewards to be slightly more interesting.

[kamuimac]

Why do people even worry - if past 5-6 year taught us anything expansion will come people will wipe in there -> people will go whine to forums -> after 2-3 weeks blizzard will nerf those dungeons to the ground //shrug

[Deleted]

You are forgetting blizzard already nerfed SOO with gear upgrades.

Cant say that is nerf
You need 16 weeks to fully upgrade your gear from zero.That helps only on ppl who laready have huge part of their HC gear upgraded with 2/2 (i went from 579 to 585 and we still have ppl who are below 580 in raid).
Back on topic. I do not see a point 5man HCs to be super hard. In cata major factor was that your group is random and we all know how some randoms are in LFD
HC raid is just today`s normal version.It will be challenge but not a problem for well organised group

[Transmigration]

Then the majority and their money will leave. the minority will get less and less content and the game will die. Blizzard knows where their money comes from, and they act accordingly. dont like it? leave and find a game that caters to "hardcores", fun fact, you wont find many if any.

This is just from my experience, so I'm not going to say you're wrong, but I'm fairly sure the majority doesn't care if they can't run heroic anything. Maybe a couple thousand bitching about it in the forums, but that's a small fraction of 5 million or however many people are playing currently.

I think it's healthy for the game. There needs to be content that you need to work for. You can run the same exact dungeon if you don't want to put time in to improve your skill, it just won't have the same mechanics. What is wrong with that? I haven't completed a heroic raid while it was current since T10, and that's totally fine with me. I don't have the time or dedication to achieve such things anymore. It doesn't mean that content shouldn't exist, right?

[Impoxh]

I think it's good that bizzard offers alternate progression paths the only thing that annoys me is that LFR will still give you better than H5s after all the wings have been opened. I just think LFR is the least enjoyable form of group content currently queues take forever the run itself takes forever it's just not fun but you have to do it.

[Kickbuttmario]

Will it be?

Look 4 years back and tell me
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...m-being-harder
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-5-man-heroics.

There were more that I bookmarked. Want them too?

Ahh my old thread. Oh how naive I was.

In truth, I think Blizzard got a lot right for catering to multiple players. Normal Dungeons > Heroic/LFR > Normal Raids and so on.

LFR and Heroic 5 mans are the truth here. With this, I can finally start to force myself to just do the 5 mans and not LFR again.

[Deleted]

Right which is why Blizzard will cater to the majority of lesser skilled players. They are well aware that if those players don't like the scene they'll get their MMO fix elsewhere.

- - - Updated - - -



You must be new to MMOs if you believe Blizzard will keep the difficulty high enough that it will bar some players.

Not everyone can clear normal raids or heroic raids and thats fine. As the guy said its alla about having a clear progression path for the people who dont want to put in effort. And its there with normal 5 mans -> lfr -> getting carried in some normal pugs.

This is fine, its what happens now

The only difference is, people who like a challenge can circumvent the hell that is the LFR loot system + afkers and do harder 5 man content instead.

[theburned]

they will get told to go normal and LFR shouldnt be an issue

[Kickbuttmario]

Wait what is the designated path? Its Normal Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons or LFR or straight to Normal mode raiding > Normal Mode Raiding / Heroic Mode Raiding > Mythic

Is that it?