Thoughts on Unions

[Raeph]

How do you feel about unions and unionizing in general.

I'm just curious, as in the United States there appears to be a large scale "De-unionizing" happening in the in working population. Traditional highly unionized states like Michigan have gone right to work, while court cases in states like California are arguing for opt-out rights for state employees (specifically teachers) and in Illinois recently home healthcare workers won the right to not be forcibly unionized by the state under the SIEU.

However, as a counter point to that activity, organizations like SIEU, Center for American Progress, Media Matters and UAW have been working to try to increase union membership in low wage/low skill positions (such as fast food) banking industry and currently foreign auto-makers (which recently failed in the VW plant in Tennessee).

Historically in the mid to late 19th and most of the 20th centuries in the United States, unionizing was see as necessary because of poor safety, abusive employers (robber barons and such), however now in the late 20th and 21st centuries there is a high level of regulation for most industries, with regards to work conditions, compensation, safety and compliance requirements that many of the hallmark benefits of being in a Union are no longer an issue (safety, reasonable pay and better work conditions), and are mandated by the government.

Most union contracts now seem to be more about protecting long term employee's from being fired, increased benefits towards better health insurance plans and ensuring certain components or production lines are produced in certain facilities.

There is also the issue of in the mid 20th century that quite a bit of fraud and illegal activity was tied to large union concerns, with ties to crime syndicates and mob activity.

I personally think that Unions are useful, should be optional, and that as a whole the fraud claims are overblown, but that there should be some oversight to ensure fairness and legality for all parties involved.

[ItachiZaku]

I completely and utterly despise unions, however, they are a necessary evil.

[Naxere]

Private sector unions I have no problems with. I loathe public sector unions though.

[Deleted]

Private sector unions I have no problems with. I loathe public sector unions though.

I couldn't agree more.

[Deleted]

Unions are a neccessary evil, but it's rubbish that they are more prone to fraud than the rest of society. I think you have seen to many mafia movies.

[Tesuque]

The unions that make me laugh are the professional athletes. Oh yeah, they need "protection" and better "safety" bargaining power. Hmm, will I get $8 million this season or $8.50 million this season? Help me, Union Steward!

[tankbug]

Well, seeing how the difference is growing between the rich and the poor, I would think that they would be more important than ever. Hopefully, they will gain some momentum in countries where workers are almost treated like slaves to produce cheap exports to western countries.

[Kalis]

Our unions in the UK were doing a good job up until the 1970's, when they went crazy go nuts and nearly destroyed the country. Then Thatcher came along and beat the living crap out of them, she probably went a bit too far, but it was necessary at the time.

Now? Well they are in line, pretty much do what they were created to do, i.e. collective bargaining, giving a voice to workers, etc., but every now and then some get a bit greedy, I'm thinking mostly of the London Underground workers, who know they can hold London to ransom for unmerited demands.

I'm not sure if fraud issues are a major problem in UK unions.

Overall I'd say we have a decent balance.

[Komati]

Unions are probably the best thing that's happened since the industrial age started. Without it workers would be paid next to nothing and have no rights. If they went away we'd probably reverse back to pre union times within a decade.

[Naxere]

Unions are probably the best thing that's happened since the industrial age started. Without it workers would be paid next to nothing and have no rights. If they went away we'd probably reverse back to pre union times within a decade.

I think you're vastly underrating how the world works now.

[Rukentuts]

I think you're vastly underrating how the world works now.

Is that why Republicans want to repeal the minimum wage while simultaneously vastly cutting welfare?

[Naxere]

Is that why Republicans want to repeal the minimum wage while simultaneously vastly cutting welfare?

Got a proposed bill you can link me to?

[Rukentuts]

Got a proposed bill you can link me to?

http://azdailysun.com/news/local/sta...727b4c3d9.html

I can link you a plethora of Republican calls to repeal on a wider scale, citing bullshit about jobs.

[Vyxn]

Have no problems with unions other then being forced to join never understood that aspect if unions are so great why are you being forced to join

also collective bargaining screws over the above average workers and gives to much benefit to the underperforming workers I feel pay and benefits should be judged on a individuals performance not on the collective because what benefit is there to do a better job then the person next to you if you are both going to always get paid the same no matter if you produce more or not

[Masark]

Have no problems with unions other then being forced to join never understood that aspect if unions are so great why are you being forced to join

Why is it that you love to quote "If you don't like the terms of employment, you should find another job", but somehow it shouldn't apply to union membership?

[Naxere]

http://azdailysun.com/news/local/sta...727b4c3d9.html

I can link you a plethora of Republican calls to repeal on a wider scale, citing bullshit about jobs.

I think your article there is a little misleading. The actual bill.

http://votesmart.org/bill/14927/#39032

Highlights:

Increases the state minimum wage from $6.75 per hour to $7.65 per hour or the federal minimum wage, whichever is greater (Sec. 1).

Repeals the provision in existing law that required the minimum wage to be increased in accordance with the cost-of-living on January 1 each year (Sec. 1).

[Vyxn]

Why is it that you love to quote "If you don't like the terms of employment, you should find another job", but somehow it shouldn't apply to union membership?

because you are forced to leave the state if you don't want to belong to a union in many states with many jobs

[Masark]

I think your article there is a little misleading. The actual bill.

http://votesmart.org/bill/14927/#39032

And then this little bit your "highlights" skips over.

The Secretary of State shall submit this proposition to the voters at the next general election as provided by article IV, part 1, section 1 of the Constitution of Arizona.

Which packages in a referendum on repealing the minimum wage.

[Rukentuts]

I think your article there is a little misleading. The actual bill.

http://votesmart.org/bill/14927/#39032

Enjoy the Texas GOP platform, and all of its regression. Saying the GOP isn't trying to repeal the minimum wage is daft.

Edit: Thank you Masark.

[Annoying]

They are quite useful. They should have no power, however, to say that you can't hire non-union employees (note, not sure what I think about things like contractors...). If the people you hire don't want to belong to the union, that's their prerogative, and has nothing to do with the union members. New-hires should be made aware of the existence of the union, and should be in contact, should they want to get hired as part of the union.

Edit: essentially - if you get hired and don't want to be responsible for things like union fees and such, you should be able to say so, at the cost of whatever protections the union provides.