Thoughts on Unions

[Catta]

They protect the workers by not allowing the unemployed to work by a cheaper wage. I don't see how keeping the unemployed without a job is not evil.

Because, once again, most of the posters here are from the US and their unions are nothing like the unions in EU.

Ah hah, so its another one of them "US version is the default on an international forum" things...

[Nihilan]

Ah hah, so its another one of them "US version is the default on an international forum" things...

US way is best way! Silly Europeans. When will you learn to just accept Murica into your hearts? And oilfields.

[Raeph]

Strange. I've been in a few unions and also worked a few jobs and said 'no thanks' when asked if I wanted to join the union for whatever I was doing at the time but I've never ever come across a union that had automatic enrollment and forced membership.
Guess things are different in the 'Land of the Free' though

In 2003 SIEU and the State of Illinois worked together to unionize private home healthcare workers, who where paid through medicaid funding. It recently went to the Supreme court who struck down the efforts. I believe the decision effected about 26k home healthcare workers in Illinois.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/06/...h-care-worker/
http://www.npr.org/2014/01/21/264257...-supreme-court

This isn't representative of all unions but it does happen. Generally in the US the employee's can choose to be in a union, by vote. If the workers choose not to be unionized then they aren't. If they do, then all workers at the business are union workers, by default now because of collective bargaining efforts of the union on all workers behalf. Those who didn't want to join the union will pay "non-member" dues, which usually is the member's dues minus any amount the union uses for any purpose other than collective bargaining.

This changes if the State is a "right to work" state. If the union is approved by a majority of the workers then those workers are a part of the union, and the workers who didn't want to join are not forced to pay "non-member" dues.

Union participation is lower in right to work states partly because it is difficult for the union members to justify the cost of collectively bargaining for both members and non-union members, while only gaining dues from members.

[Catta]

US way is best way! Silly Europeans. When will you learn to just accept Murica into your hearts? And oilfields.

Im already in a union myself. As a student. Its a student union. But not the US high school thing you see in the movies. Its an actual union for me and my fellow students that provide legal help, cheap insurance deals, organizes our substitute bureau, manages our bookstore and whatnot. It also came about due to horrid working conditions which they were subjected to during the polio epidemic.

[drwelfare]

My uncle is in the Teamsters, he does not like the union but he has to be in it where he works and he admits he likes the benefits.
He will always talk about the waste that the rules cause.

Here is one incident, all these people are making $20+ an hour on a government contract job
6 empty wooden pallets are requested.
He drive a truck with 2 members of the Laborers Union to the pallet yard
Laborers will not tote the pallets to the truck, they have to get someone with the forklift to move them to the tailgate, then they finish loading them into the truck
They can not stack over the bed of the truck so they can only take 4 pallets on first trip
Get back to where the pallets are needed
Move them to edge of tailgate, get a forklift driver, unload them and move pallets to final destination
Repeat process for 2nd trip to get the last 2 pallets

[Elegiac]

Entirely necessary, and should be compulsory.

[kruor]

I'm in the private sector union. Its a great thing to have and has probably saved my life with job conditions on a few times. Nothing wrong with them. People get the word union confused, thinking all unions are the same union. I know my union hates teamster unions, etc etc.

[Tastyfish]

People fucked up unions with the things people do. Solid concept tho.

[Underverse]

Such an incredible waste. Ironically, a good example of the market creating inefficiency.

[SL1200]

I'm not in a union, but the bricklayer's union keeps our wages high. I fully support them any time they're not pickiting my employer. It was the same when I worked with an electrician. Unions have their place. Especially for the building trades.

[Ghostpanther]

How are unions "evil"? They protect the workers and allow bargaining powers against their employer. Even the employers unionize.

It is not that they are evil, but more like wasteful. At least from my experience. I worked at a Diesel Engine manufacturer once and the Union in it was a total waste of dues each month. My last place of employment I was in management and the local Union was like having a splinter in your ass all the time. I never lost a grievance flied by them representing any of my employees because I was always in the right. So their whole existence was to waste my time with all the paperwork and meetings required. :P

The local Honda plant in Ohio has not had a Union and repeated attempts to unionize the plant has failed. Because the workers there do not feel a need to have one. The company treats them well. That said, I am sure there are places where a union can be beneficial. But I have never worked anyplace where they are.

[Wells]

A lot of the complaints against unions here seem to be based around workers not rolling over for employers

- - - Updated - - -

They protect the workers by not allowing the unemployed to work by a cheaper wage. I don't see how keeping the unemployed without a job is not evil.

So by this argument any company that can afford to hire more people needs to too right?

[Deleted]

I support unions on the whole, I live at the epicentre of the miner's strike back in the eighties and I can see how badly things have turned out after Thatcher and that.

However, shit like this Really pisses me off. A "paltry" 2.75% pay increase? So what isn't paltry? 5 percent? And where's that money coming from? Us, the people using the railways. And whom did they inconvenience by striking? Us, the people using the railways.

[Al Gorefiend]

Private sector unions I have no problems with. I loathe public sector unions though.

Can you explain the differences between American union systems as if I was a 5 year old? I don't think I've had to deal with one, (I think)

[Wells]

Can you explain the differences between American union systems as if I was a 5 year old? I don't think I've had to deal with one, (I think)

They're the same system. Public unions have just managed to hold out for a little longer as there's less absolutely overwhelming pressure against them from monied interests.

[poser765]

In my industry they are absolutely required...it being a fairly feast or famine industry to begin with. Often the first thing to be cut is pay and quality of life for the workers. The problem is, our Unions are kind of gimped. If other labor groups have a major grievance, or are at an impasse in negotiating a collective bargaining agreement they can strike.

Our labor, unfortunately, is regulated under something called the Railway Labor Act which basically takes away our authority to legally strike on our own and gives it to the government in the form of a National Mediation Board. If the NMB agrees that we have hit a wall and the company won't negotiate in good faith we can be released to strike ONLY if we are not considered a vital service...which we are. The government rarely lets us strike.

Case in point...my current company and union. We have been in contract negotiations for the lest SEVEN YEARS! Half of out work force has a pay scale that tops out at 4 years. That means that MANY in my company haven't even received even a cost of living raise in three years!

Now that makes it sound like they are pointless, but I promise you...things at company would be a lot worse if we didn't have a CBA to work under...even if it is old and shitty. I'll gladly keep my union...I just wish the government would stay out of negotiations or let us have the option to strike. I mean really...A union that can't strike? that's like a limp dick.

[Raeph]

Can you explain the differences between American union systems as if I was a 5 year old? I don't think I've had to deal with one, (I think)

United States private sector unions are what you would consider a normal trade union. Employee's band together to collectively bargain with their employer, or workers in a sector of the economy band together to collective bargain with multiple employers.

United States public sector unions are more like large scale departmental committees that collectively bargain for their portion of the government workforce. This is where you will have say a Teachers Union, in say California, collectively bargaining for the welfare of the teachers in the state.

The main issue you run into with people who have an issue with public sector unions is that in the United States at least a union can spend some of their money on non-union organizing, such as supporting a particular party or candidate. Public sector unions gain their dues from government employee's, who see an increase in their pay, and thereby an increase in the monies going to union dues, based on the unions bargaining activity, as well as the political activity to elect certain people to public service.

The charge is that a public sector union, by being able to do both political activism and collective bargaining, is able to not only collectively bargain for their workers but they are also able to try to elect public officials who will be more sympathetic to their demands at the negotiating table. This leads in some areas to issues with some agreements that have bankrupted certain cities, because the contracted benefits that was negotiated by the union, and allowed by the politicians that elected them, have led to severer shortfalls in monies available for other government services. See Detroit Michigan, Stockton and San Diego California.

Granted again not representative of all public sector unions, but it does happen.

[Gumboy]

They used to be a great force for good and were requried. They are stillr equried now, but the fact that they force you to pay for political donations out of your dues to a party you might not support is despicable.

[Boostedtoon]

Have had their place at certain periods*

[Wells]

They used to be a great force for good and were requried. They are stillr equried now, but the fact that they force you to pay for political donations out of your dues to a party you might not support is despicable.

You can't be forced to pay for anything other than the direct costs of services you are rendered.