10 man heroic raiding being taken away from us

[fguru482]

i am very concerned not only for myself but the entire wow game.

20 person mythic is not my cup of tea. i hate raiding with more than 10 people. 10 people is perfect for me to hang out and raid. 25 is like a sess pool.



ok also

because heroic raiding is going to scale 10-25 good luck trying to find a group that stays at 10 man... every flex group always adds a few baddies to be carried. it will happen in heroic now.


soo that means if you want to do 10 man heroics / mythic you cannot... you physically cannot play 10 man wow anymore. IT IS GONE FOREVER.

i know there is a solution to form my own guild, however when i get to mythic i wont be able to raid bc i only have 10 raiders.

[WarpKnight]

Good riddance

[Acidbaron]

Good riddance

Second, 2 formats were never equal. 20 man is fine and raids can be made harder if focused on one format not 2.

[Avada Kedavra]

What is there to actually discuss here?

it will be awesome and a great improvement to the current structure.

[Deleted]

it won't be missed.

they should have never made 10 man heroic equal to 25 man heroic after Wrath in the first place.

[Deleted]

Thank god it's going away. Really, you can never perfectly balance two very distinct raid sizes with very different rulesets.

Recent tiers had many imbalance issues going on with them

This got especially bad when thunderforged gear was introduced. Not only they have more loot per person from each boss, they have friendlier RNG (when 6 items drop out of possible 20 it's far more likely to see that fucking trinket, in 10 man it was only 2 items out of same 20), now also let's give them higher item level gear too! I really despise this, after 11 months of SOO, having cleared the raid I have only 3 heroic warforged items while guys from some shitty 8/14 hc 25-man guild walk almost fully decked in best in slot. Is this fair? No it isn't!!!

Now the problem is gone. Unified size for highest difficulty (the only one that matters for progression raiders). No more this boss harder/easier on 10 man, no more this mode drops better loot.

[fguru482]

What is there to actually discuss here?

it will be awesome and a great improvement to the current structure.

hoping to raise awareness that they are completely gutting the game.

i only raid 10 man and have for years. hate carrying people in 25.

- - - Updated - - -

Thank god it's going away. Really, you can never perfectly balance two very distinct raid sizes with very different rulesets.

Recent tiers had many imbalance issues going on with them

This got especially bad when thunderforged gear was introduced. Not only they have more loot per person from each boss, they have friendlier RNG (when 6 items drop out of possible 20 it's far more likely to see that fucking trinket, in 10 man it was only 2 items out of same 20), now also let's give them higher item level gear too! I really despise this, after 11 months of SOO, having cleared the raid I have only 3 heroic warforged items while guys from some shitty 8/14 hc 25-man guild walk almost fully decked in best in slot. Is this fair? No it isn't!!!

Now the problem is gone. Unified size for highest difficulty (the only one that matters for progression raiders). No more this boss harder/easier on 10 man, no more this mode drops better loot.

problem is really that they are too lazy to make 2 formats because it takes so much time to balance them.

its lazy blizzard

[mistahwilshire]

Adapt or die off are the choices you have. Dwelling on what won't be is fruitless.

[jsz]

you physically cannot play 10 man wow anymore

Except you absolutely can. Run your own group and only bring nine other people. Do Normal and Heroic.

Do RBGs.

[WarpKnight]

hoping to raise awareness that they are completely gutting the game.

i only raid 10 man and have for years. hate carrying people in 25.

You can still do that, just do it in the formats that require laughably minimal amounts of raid organisation, just like 10man heroic today

[fguru482]

Except you absolutely can. Run your own group and only bring nine other people. Do Normal and Heroic.

Do RBGs.

im a big pve guy, so i like doing heroic. which is now mythic.... and no you cannot mythic with 10 people

- - - Updated - - -

Adapt or die off are the choices you have. Dwelling on what won't be is fruitless.

i have a feeling i will unsub as soon as i raid mythic a few times

[Pejo]

I like the change to 20 man. This allows them to release content tuned tighter, but I think the most important thing is they can do mechanics like Gruul with the mage tank. I expect to see range tanks, needing a special ability such as vanish/invisibility, splitting off groups making it way back into raiding. Mythic has the capability to really feel different with these changes.

[RoKPaNda]

I didn't realize 25-man chest beating was still a thing. Heh. Yeah, sadly 10-man heroic raid groups lose out this expansion.

[Seriss]

You're a bit late to the party actually. The news about 20-man raids has been out for more than 8 months. It has been amply discussed. We've all expressed our concerns and discussed the issue with our guilds. Some guilds broke apart, some will yet break apart, and some will manage to recruit enough people to make the transition to 20-man.

All in all, it's a good change. 10-man was always extremely hard to balance. Encounters could be made exponentially harder by not having certain classes and/or CDs at your disposal; encounters could be made exponentially easier by having an ideal setup. Ideal setups would whine that it's too easy, suboptimal setups would say that it's challenging. 25-man would bash 10-man and vice versa.

A consolidated raid size is the better way in the long run, even if it kills some 10-mans. (And my guild has been doing well with the recruiting for the past couple of months and will soon be able to switch to 25-man, excitedly awaiting the patch that'll downsize things to 20-man).

[jsz]

"There's no content for me!!!!!"
>ignores every single type of content in the game

[Leih]

Didn't we already have this topic talked to death 100 times over right after Blizzcon? I thought most people had gotten over it by now ^^

[Daez]

it won't be missed.

they should have never made 10 man heroic equal to 25 man heroic after Wrath in the first place.

The entire game is riddled with appropriate claims that 10 man heroic was actually harder than 25 man heroic on a great many fights... starting with hard modes in Wrath.

[Neehs]

So...find a guild that won't add more than 10 people? Instead of saying its impossible and rage for no reason.

[mitbrandir]

Having a 1 size top difficulty is actually better for raiding, since now that everyone has the same amount of players, it's easier to properly balance ( like the balance issues on i.e. both paragons and garrosh hc ). Ontop of that, it allows for different mechanics, because you are no longer limited to 10 players, and there's a fair chance you'll have atleast 1 of every class in your setup. An example of that would be the need to MC on Razuvious on 25 man.

[jsz]

The entire game is riddled with appropriate claims that 10 man heroic was actually harder than 25 man heroic on a great many fights... starting with hard modes in Wrath.

10man fights that were harder were left that way to balance out the fights that were laughably easier than their 25man counterparts.