10 man heroic raiding being taken away from us

[Perkunas]

im a big pve guy, so i like doing heroic. which is now mythic.... and no you cannot mythic with 10 people

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i have a feeling i will unsub as soon as i raid mythic a few times

Yeah, sucks. happened to a lot of my 25-man friends when they had the 10/25 change in the Pre-Cata patch. GL to you, mate.

[Khorm]

build me a computer with $400 that will run a 25 man raid with a consistent output of 30+ FPS on every encounter.

You need more horsepower to raid 25 man than you do to run 10 man. Between car payments & insurance, rent, having the money to put gas in the car and to eat, i just don't care enough about buying a processor to raid 25s and my computer runs everything in the game except for 25 man raids just fine.

like, why would i even put down $200 for something I don't even like?

Your PC is not a console, you don't need to chuck the whole thing and buy a whole new one. Go buy a $150 processor and take 2 minutes to install it into your computer.

If you can't afford that then go have a long hard look at your 'career'.

[Perkunas]

Your PC is not a console, you don't need to chuck the whole thing and buy a whole new one. Go buy a $150 processor and take 2 minutes to install it into your computer.

If you can't afford that then go have a long hard look at your 'career'.

Or in reality he should probably just upgrade everything. Computers aren't meant to last forever; this isn't a 1995 Toyota we're talking about here. If he wants to game on your computer at solid visual settings he needs to bite the bullet and spend some real cash for a proper machine. PC gaming is not a cheap hobby and if people want to partake they need to spend some cash. If real life prevents that then so be it.

[Mahourai]

Yeah, sucks. happened to a lot of my 25-man friends when they had the 10/25 change in the Pre-Cata patch. GL to you, mate.

No, nothing happened to stop your friends from raiding 25 except the sudden realization that 25-man raids didn't appeal to the majority of their raid group without loot bribes. A totally different situation.

[Perkunas]

No, nothing happened to stop your friends from raiding 25 except the sudden realization that 25-man raids didn't appeal to the majority of their raid group without loot bribes. A totally different situation.

Or, perhaps people in the guild realized that the tactical nightmare of running a late-night 25-man guild when the same drops came from 10-man so they "took the best of the best" and told the others to piss off. You're simply coming off as bitter because the pendulum has finally swung back.

[Mahourai]

Or, perhaps people in the guild realized that the tactical nightmare of running a late-night 25-man guild when the same drops came from 10-man so they "took the best of the best" and told the others to piss off. You're simply coming off as bitter because the pendulum has finally swung back.

Again - nothing you're describing was the destruction of 25-man raids, only the destruction of your 25-man raid, because people in it did not want to run it. Hardmode 10s do not exist anymore. It isn't a remotely comparable change.

Your leadership not wanting to run 25H does not equal 10H ceasing to exist. Period.

[Perkunas]

Again - nothing you're describing was the destruction of 25-man raids, only the destruction of your 25-man raid, because people in it did not want to run it. Hardmode 10s do not exist anymore. It isn't a remotely comparable change.

Your leadership not wanting to run 25H does not equal 10H ceasing to exist. Period.

I was simply saying that my friends quit as well. You're acting butt-hurt because Blizzard realized that they made a mistake. You're looking for a fight and I'm not after one. Enjoy your guild hunt.

[Mahourai]

I was simply saying that my friends quit as well. You're acting butt-hurt because Blizzard realized that they made a mistake. You're looking for a fight and I'm not after one. Enjoy your guild hunt.

I'm not looking for anything - because unlike you and your friends' situation, there is no replacement. 10H guilds are gone - all of them.

[Perkunas]

I'm not looking for anything - because unlike you and your friends' situation, there is no replacement. 10H guilds are gone - all of them.

C'est la vie. Star Wars has 8-man content.

[Gandrake]

You're acting butt-hurt because Blizzard realized that they made a mistake

Heroic Raiding is already an unpopular activity in World of Warcraft; I'm not really sure that cutting more players out of the Heroic Raid community is any kind of step in the right direction.

Your PC is not a console, you don't need to chuck the whole thing and buy a whole new one. Go buy a $150 processor and take 2 minutes to install it into your computer.

If you can't afford that then go have a long hard look at your 'career'.

What are you, like, a janitor at your High School? maybe you can talk to the English teacher and they'll get you some private lessons, teach you how to read son

But here, I'll help you out - I don't want to buy a new processor. I could, but I don't want to. Why? The only thing upgrading my processor would do for me is give me favorable framerates in 25s, which, if you need it ran by you again, I don't actually want to participate in.

that's like buying an engagement ring with a diamond in it and proposing to honey boo boo when a ring out of a crane machine would have sufficed

that's just a waste of money

[Perkunas]

Heroic Raiding is already an unpopular activity in World of Warcraft; I'm not really sure that cutting more players out of the Heroic Raid community is any kind of step in the right direction.

I wasn't really talking to you with that comment. It was directed at the snarky guy who jumped on me for saying I know what it feels like when people leave the game they don't want to because of a decision they don't agree with. The real issue is Blizzard should have never changed the Wrath model from the start. All it did was split the heroic raiding community and cause nothing but headaches. Constant balance issues, fighting over prestige, guilds shattering left and right, tons of animosity between 10/25 raiders. One progression format was always the best solution.

[Kickbuttmario]

I don't think you guys understand. Back in wrath, 10 man was just a niche for the casual/family gamers and/or players that had some free time and felt like running a 10 man. Their goal was always to have 25 man be the difficult raiding. They changed it in Cataclysm because they saw some wide appeal and felt "lets try making them equal" but it caused a lot of problems for the 25 man communities. Not much changed in MoP. I think the changes are needed for large guild communities to come back forth once again and solid server hardcore progression can occur once more. I feel like it was heavily missed in Cataclysm and MoP.

And to those that hate raiding in 25 mans for all number of reasons, upgrade your pc. No really, not sure why no one likes to upgrade it. Feels awesome seeing your shitty 2-5 minute start up computer go to a 5-10 second start up computer (SSD ftw). Not to mention, all the benefits of playing at it. If that isn't your reason, I assure you. The true difficulty in finding a solid raiding guild isn't about size, but about the people. I made this mistake before and found an amazing raiding guild back in RIFT, so its always possible.

[Zarillion]

It's really frustrating that 10man Mythic will not be a thing in WoD, but I've come to accept it. I was pretty furious when it was announced at the last Blizzcon. Ultimately though, a fixed raid size for the top-tier of raiding will lead to some really cool concepts that were just impossible to balance between two raid sizes. Guild can no longer have pissing contests over which boss is harder on which raid size, and everyone at that tier will get the same flow of loot (25mans get twice the flow of warforged items that 10mans get).

[Baconeggcheese]

But here, I'll help you out - I don't want to buy a new processor. I could, but I don't want to. Why? The only thing upgrading my processor would do for me is give me favorable framerates in 25s, which, if you need it ran by you again, I don't actually want to participate in.

that's like buying an engagement ring with a diamond in it and proposing to honey boo boo when a ring out of a crane machine would have sufficed

that's just a waste of money

So we should cater to people who refuse to maintain their equipment required to play a 10 year old game with barely any system requirements in this day and age is what you're saying.

[Raiju]

And to those that hate raiding in 25 mans for all number of reasons, upgrade your pc. No really, not sure why no one likes to upgrade it. Feels awesome seeing your shitty 2-5 minute start up computer go to a 5-10 second start up computer (SSD ftw). Not to mention, all the benefits of playing at it. If that isn't your reason, I assure you. The true difficulty in finding a solid raiding guild isn't about size, but about the people. I made this mistake before and found an amazing raiding guild back in RIFT, so its always possible.

Some people have the pc, have played (and unfortunately currently play) 25man, and simply found 10man better because of preference - such as having a bigger individual impact on the group, easily routing out people who get carried and replacing them compared to the 5-10 lower end you have in 25mans which you admit yourself would be a logistical nightmare to replace.

The issues 25man faced were all resolvable on a personal level - if your realm wasn't huge you had the option to move (like 10mans are doing now since at least on the EU servers I've seen - merged realms is a pile of shit), if your realm was big enough (most of them at beginning of cata) you had no excuse other than having to recruit people who once given the option didn't want to play in 25man. A lot changed in MoP to expressly benefit 25mans in the form of high chance at warforged and bonus loot.

@Baconeggcheese most people have had times where they struggled in 25mans because of blizzards designs more than any pc issue. A pc that can play other current gen games on ultra often struggling on wow because of things like stampede and OTT smart healing mechanics causing unnecessary lag is not the players fault. And while YOU can pick and choose people based on PC spec, blizzard can't really.

[Deleted]

Our main druid healer since WOTLK quit WoW when Blizzard announced the Mythic raiding in WOD because his computer couldn't handle it, he was already struggling with 10man... Now personally I think why the fuck doesn't he get a job and buy himself a new one, hell with the ammount of time he had to save he could even afford one on benefits.

Most likely he just wanted to quit and this was the excuse he came up with. I saw it multiple times back when still managing a guild. It's often the oldest and most dedicated players who feel like they must have some reason other than "I just don't feel like playing anymore", so they come up with crap like this.

But on the topic of performance, it's ridiculous that people could raid 40 mans at least two technology generations ago in 2006. The game hasn't fundamentally changed since then, and now people are struggling even with 25 mans on much better hardware. It's really WoW's codebase showing its age and Blizzard having fallen far behind in keeping the engine up to date.